Plot and Plan
quisiera saber si hay una diferencia en espanol entre las palabras plot and plan. In English these words technically mean the same, but in usage plot seems more sinister or negative whereas plan is more positve. thanks for the help. Soy un pastor y hago un viaje a Panama todos los anos para una campagna. Necesito saber la diferencia para un sermon. Gracias
12 Answers
Thank you, Natasha, that is exactly what my question was. Wow I did not realize my question was so ambiguous.
Natasha said:
Chris Oliver said:
I am sorry about the accents. I have not mastered using them on this site. Plot and Plan are both English words. technically they have the same meaning, but in composition and conversation, a plot is more sinister than a plan. For example, we might say, "Satan has a plot, but God has a plan."
I think that's what he wants, to say, folks: Satan has a plot, but God has a plan.So how could we translate it? I'll try.Satanás nos trama lo mal, pero Diós nos planea lo bueno.(This is very literal, a native speaker could probably make it sound better.)
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I'm dying to know if Lazarus did it on purpose
If he did, it was probably because either 1) he wanted to sound like a native or 2) he was sleepy, since by my calculations it was 2:15 in the morning when he posted. He surely hears this construction around him all the time where he lives in the UK (the Brits are as bad as we are, or, should I say "as bad as us," when it comes to this), which always poses a dilemma for language learners: Do I learn the "correct" way, or the common way? I hear Mexicans around here saying trajistes, venistes, hablastes, etc., but I'm not going over to the dark side just yet. 
James Santiago said:
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Ni en los sueños.
"Trama", on the other hand, refers to the internal cohesion in a text.
Bueno, gracias por habérmelo aclarado.
A propósito, cuando dices "better than me," suenas como un hablante nativo del inglés, cometiendo los mismos errores. jejeje
I'm dying to know if Lazarus did it on purpose, ha ha
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Ni en los sueños. 
"Trama", on the other hand, refers to the internal cohesion in a text.
Bueno, gracias por habérmelo aclarado.
A propósito, cuando dices "better than me," suenas como un hablante nativo del inglés, cometiendo los mismos errores. jejeje
Once thing is the noun and another thing is the verb. Words have connotations depending on how and where you used them; you surely know that as a translator (better than me).
Try to ask any native, without providing a context, what words come into their mind after hearing "tramar", and I bet you they will be: "secreto", "daño", "engaño", "venganza", "complot", "enredo" and similar ones. It is a verb normally (but not necessarily) associated with negative words. Correct me if I'm wrong.
"Trama", on the other hand, refers to the internal cohesion in a text.
P.S. According to my combination dictionary, "tramar" normally goes along with atentado, asesinato, secuestro, venganza, golpe de estado, complot, estafa, ardid, argucia, revuelta, insurrección,... although sometimes goes along with "operación", "estrategia" and "proyecto".
Lazarus wrote:
"Tramar" always implies something bad or complicated.
Me sorprende oír eso, porque la trama de un libro no es nada mala. Y pensé que el verbo tramar era "to weave a plot" como en un libro o una historia.
Natasha said:
Satanás nos trama lo mal, pero Diós nos planea lo bueno. (This is very literal, a native speaker could probably make it sound better.)
The main idea of "lo" (it also has other uses) is to turn adjectives into abstract nouns, so you have to say "lo bueno" and "lo malo". Also, "Dios" has no accent, because it is one syllable.
Your sentence could be said as:
Satanás trama, pero Dios planea.
"Tramar" always implies something bad or complicated.
Chris Oliver said:
I am sorry about the accents. I have not mastered using them on this site. Plot and Plan are both English words. technically they have the same meaning, but in composition and conversation, a plot is more sinister than a plan. For example, we might say, "Satan has a plot, but God has a plan."
I think that's what he wants, to say, folks: Satan has a plot, but God has a plan.
So how could we translate it? I'll try.
Satanás nos trama lo mal, pero Diós nos planea lo bueno.
(This is very literal, a native speaker could probably make it sound better.)
By the way, here are some very clear directions for using the accent marks:
[url=http://my.spanishdict.com/forum/topic/show'id=1710195%3ATopic%3A326492]http://my.spanishdict.com/forum/topic/show'id=1710195%3ATopic%3A326492[/url]
Chris Oliver said:
I am sorry about the accents. I have not mastered using them on this site. Plot and Plan are both English words. technically they have the same meaning, but in composition and conversation, a plot is more sinister than a plan. For example, we might say, "Satan has a plot, but God has a plan."
If your question is about the English words (which isn't at all clear from your original question), then you seem already to have the answer. Do you have a question about Spanish? Are you trying to ask if there are two words in Spanish with similar nuances? Assuming the answers to be yes, you might be able to contrast "un plan" with "un complot." The latter means conspiracy, scheme, or plot.
I am sorry about the accents. I have not mastered using them on this site. Plot and Plan are both English words. technically they have the same meaning, but in composition and conversation, a plot is more sinister than a plan. For example, we might say, "Satan has a plot, but God has a plan."
Chris, as far as I know, plot is not a word in Spanish. I'm not sure what you mean.
BTW, if you can't or won't use accents in typing, you should write "anyos" rather than "anos," since the way you wrote it sounds rather comical and distracts from your question.
