Aquí, Acá, Ahí, Allí and Allá - Reference Page ??
It seems to me Span¡shD!ct.com needs a Reference page concerning Aquí, Acá, Ahí, Allí and Allá. I have written this with a view to adding it to the reference pages. If anyone sees anything in need of correction or improvement, please add a comment or another reply to my attention. Thanks, Moe.
Aquí, Acá, Ahí, Allí and Allá - Adverbs of Position
aquí = herestyle = "font-size:200%;color:black">
“Here” is the place where the speaker is.
acá = hereL.Am.
“Here” is the place where the speaker is.
ahí = therestyle = "font-size:166%;color:black">
In the near distance - Near the person spoken to, or, in the same room
allí = therestyle = "font-size:133%;color:black">
In the medium distance. – Not near the person speaking or the person being spoken to, say, down the hall or across the street
allá = therestyle = "font-size:100%;color:black"> In the far distance. – Way over there. Somewhere over there. In another city or country.
Note – One of my references sates that ‘allí’ and ‘allá’ have the same distance connotations. The difference is that ‘allá’ is generally used with verbs of motion such as “Mexico está calor en Febrero y me gustaría mucho ir allá.” What do others think? Do I need to look at this?
5 Answers
Thank you Moe for trying. I had been pretty comfortable with acá vs. aquí but then I read something that triggered a question in my mind. That's how I arrived at your post. I searched the answers forum and, yes, I found several threads asking the same, or a similar, question. Yet, most had one or two answers that either "seconded" the question or reflected another user's response that was far from clear or was contradicted by another answer in another thread. In many of the responses, the user described (in so many words) the answer as something of a guess. So, yes, there are many threads on this subject but nothing that I considered authoritative enough to make me feel comfortable with my understanding.
I love SpanishDict. I respect and admire almost everyone here. Even those I am about to diss.
The reason for this post is the very frustration Moe expressed after making a legitimate effort to understand and/or explain something that really isn't explained adequately in any of the other posts on the subject, at least in my opinion and, obviously, in Moe's opinion.
After reading the responses to Moe's post, I find myself again irritated by the attitude of some responders, even those to whom I am grateful for other enlightening responses in other threads. I admit up front that my response is overkill and in large part the result of some pent up frustration from seeing similar dismissive, arrogant and/or supercilious (in English slang: "snotty") posts in the past.
Most regular users are well aware of the search feature and will have already searched and found whatever has been posted before. In this instance, I searched these terms throughout the forum and found lack of clarity, contradictory and/or uncertain responses. Apparently, so did Moe. So Moe makes a legitimate, good faith effort to assemble in one post a comprehensive discussion of the similarities, differences and nuances among these similar terms.
And what does Moe get for his efforts? A few nice comments but the actual responses (and, unfortunately, from really experienced users here) include (and I am, of course, paraphrasing):
"They are different, there are other posts, go look for them."
Yet, as I have said, those earlier posts obviously were insufficiently clear or complete to answer Moe's question - or mine. So why even bother to write a dismissive post like that above that provides no useful information? It doesn't explain how or why they are different. It refers the user to other posts, many of which say there is little difference or are contradictory.
Equally disheartening is the snide remark about stereotyping in another response. It's going to be harder to learn Spanish if we are forced to deny that there are, in fact, legitimate regional differences, particularly in spoken Spanish.
There are many expressions that are exceptionally common, for example, in Mexican Spanish. Yet, I am certain that they are heard elsewhere. Does that mean that we are prohibited from referring to the fact that an expression is most common in Mexico or risk being chastised for perpetuating "annoying, unchallenged stereotypes"? Is it an "annoying, unchallenged, stereotype" to recognize that the verb "coger," while a common, useful verb throughout the Spanish speaking world except Mexico, means something wholly different in that nation?
I've heard "vos" in a small area in New Mexico and I know it is heard in many other discreet locations. Does that mean we are vile ignoramuses using "annoying, unchecked stereotypes" if we refer to the fact that "vos" is most commonly heard in Buenos Aires? That seems counterproductive to learning and even more counterproductive to actually understanding.
"Mac" means raincoat in Great Britain. Does that mean I've never heard it in the U.S.? Obviously not. Yet, if I were teaching someone English, and I were asked about the usage of "mac," I'd explain that it means raincoat but is primarily a British usage. Does that mean I’m perpetuating some inappropriate, stereotype? I guess to those looking for stereotypes about which they can express annoyance perhaps it does.
Some are offended by the improper use of stereotypes. And some look for stereotypes to be offended by.
I am offended by the notion that stereotypes are, by definition, universally evil and/or ignorant. Yes, sometimes stereotypes are based on ignorance and used in harmful and hurtful ways. Yet, stereotypes are not inherently evil. Let's try one likely to drive unthinking people crazy: Is it a stereotype to observe that most undocumented immigrants coming to the United States from the South are unskilled, under-educated who speak, read and write Spanish no better then an uneducated native U.S. citizen speaks, reads and writes English?
Yes, it is a stereotype.
Is it, generally speaking, false? No, it is, generally speaking true. Wealthy, educated Central and South Americans are not, generally speaking, trying to sneak into the U.S. Is it true that every single individual undocumented immigrant is poor and uneducated? Obviously not. Should we assume that every undocumented immigrant whom we meet is uneducated and unskilled? Obviously not. We should consider each individual as unique.
Yet, it is helpful to keep in mind when listening to the Spanish spoken by a group of undocumented immigrants, that the Spanish being heard may not necessarily be the Spanish one would wish to emulate in the same way that one wouldn't want to adopt the non-standard English heard in Appalachia or some urban areas.
We all recognize the occasional users who post homework questions, generally inane and/or offensive inquiries. Most of us either ignore them or respond appropriately to that individual in that circumstance. Yet, perhaps it is worth either keeping silent or giving the benefit of the doubt to questions posted here. Certainly, we should resist the impulse to post an utterly unhelpful response or a supercilious, arrogant one.
I'm partially sorry for the rant. And you all can unload on me if you want. You can even impose some stereotype on me. I will continue to cringe when I see unhelpful responses to questions that may very well just be looking for a little help understanding a topic that has been addressed repeatedly but perhaps not satisfactorily, at least to the person asking the question.
acá = hereL.Am.“Here” is the place where the speaker is.
Does that mean that many people from Spain I know speak Latin American Spanish even though they've never been to Latin America? Or is it just another annoying unchecked stereotype? I'm asking because I've heard "acá" tens of thousands of times in Spain!
In my opinion, "acá" should be explained as an alternative way of saying "aquí", which is generally more used in Latin America, but widely used in Spain as an emphatic replacement of "aquí", among other uses. The precise use of this adverb cannot be simply categorized as being Latin-American or not, as though languages could be explained so easily. Like it or not, "acá" can be used many times per day in Spain, so saying that it is Latin American (and not Spanish) is simply wrong, a lie, a big mistake. If you are not well informed, at least say "I think".
Spanish, like Japanese and many other languages, has a three point deictic system that considers the speaker, the hearer, and everyone else, and it is more complex than just "here" and there":
"este/a/o" and "aquí/acá": psychologically within the reach of the speaker, whether near or far.
"ese/a/o" and "ahí": psychologically close to both the speaker and the hearer (if present), or reachable enough from a subjective perspective.
"aquel/la/lo" and "allí/allá": perceived as being far from the speaker and the hearer (if present), or hard to reach.
English doesn't usually differentiate between "ese" and "aquel", but since this differentiation is usually desirable, "over there" and other similar phrases are often added to highlight how unreachable something or someone can be. In Spanish this differentiation is a default.
I seem to have done a very bad job of explaining the purpose of this thread. Although, Qfreed seems to have gotten very close to it.
If there is one more complete and more accurate Reference page to point to, then Forum responders would not have to try to point to previous entries many of which are incomplete and/or inaccurate. Earlier today, two attempts to point to previous links more or less failed and it looked like the person who made today's enquiry did not get the reply they wanted and perhaps deserved. That seemed to me to be a mistake that could be easily overcome by creating and using one authoritative reference page.
Just so that you know, when I entered these words "Aquí, Acá, Ahí, Allí, Allá" into the Previous Question Search Window the search yielded more than 100 'hits' on previous postings. That is a daunting challenge for any learner trying to find the answer to what they probably believe to be the simple words 'here' and 'there'.
I do not understand how some of my original comments seem to have been misunderstood. I'm referring to these original entries of mine
If anyone sees anything in need of correction or improvement, please add a comment or another reply to my attention.
and also
What do others think? Do I need to look at this?
I intended these references to convey to others that I was searching for help and suggestions and was open to constructive suggestions. I may be too sensitive, but for me the following two comments didn't feel constructive. I felt them as acerbic, abrasive and out of harmony with my requests for help in this subject.
Or is it just another annoying unchecked stereotype?
If you are not well informed, at least say "I think".
From the tenor of the two replies I have recieved, the nuances of the words I was hoping to explain seems to be beyond my present skill level. I will not be completing this small project at this time but may come back and have a look at it later when my knowledge improves.
Aquí and acá are different: there are previous threads that explain this.
This is for moe
I tried a while back to get all the Spanish for the 4 English words:
This - that - these - those.
I had found 27, I think it was, but never really got a complete explanation of how they should be used.
I am still waiting because in fact I "think" there are 32. (In Romanian there are 64!)
