Imperfect vs. Pluperfect subjunctive

Question

Hi all,

The reference site I've been using has me confused with the imperfect and pluperfect subjunctive. The pages I've been looking at are located here:

http://www.elearnspanishlanguage.com/grammar/verbs/imperfectsubjunctive.html http://www.elearnspanishlanguage.com/grammar/verbs/pluperfectsubjunctive.html

For both tenses this site says it is used "To express subjectivity in the past after the same verbs, impersonal expressions, and conjunctions as the present subjunctive. For the pluperfect subjunctive to be needed, the verb in the main clause has to be in one of the following tenses/moods: preterite, imperfect, or conditional." - basically the exact same description for both tenses.

As example sentences, it gives, for pluperfect subjunctive:

Quería que tú lo hubieras hecho. I wanted you to do it.

And for imperfect subjunctive:

Quería que lo hicieras. I wanted you to do it.

So the same translation for two distinct sentences in spanish. Can anyone please explain the differences?

Thank you.

Answer 1

For both tenses this site says it is used "To express subjectivity in the past after the same verbs, impersonal expressions, and conjunctions as the present subjunctive. For the pluperfect subjunctive to be needed, the verb in the main clause has to be in one of the following tenses/moods: preterite, imperfect, or conditional." - basically the exact same description for both tenses.

A pretty useless explanation, if you ask me. The pluperfect subjunctive has two main uses, but the most common one (I'd say) is almost identical to that of the imperfect subjunctive, except for the perspective: both tenses can refer to any "non-declared" moment in the past, the present or the future (which tend to be unreal or hypothetical, due to their non declarative nature, but it depends on the context). The difference between is that the imperfect refers to the moment when the action takes place, and the pluperfect contemplates that action after it has finished.

1) Quería que comiera más

2) Quería que hubiera comido

"Quería" is telling us something that you picture or recall in your mind like this "I want...", suggesting that it is something you used to feel in the past, but it also depends on what the conversation, because in reality things have a context, and here there are just two dry and out-of-context sentences.

Now we have two options, both in subjunctive, so you are not suggesting ("declaring") that the other person eat or will eat. In the first one you don't even know when did you want the other person to eat (unless you provide more information, or you know what the conversation is exactly about). With that sentence on its own, it could be referring to eating in the past, but it could easily refer to a moment in the future, even from your current temporal perspective, so it is not too late for the person to start eating, as we wished in the first place.

In the second one, the pluperfect is a kind of "perfect" tense, so your non-declarative (or hypothetical) scenario is about what would have been like if the person had eaten ("had eaten" is like the pluperfect in English!). So, whether it happened or not, you are talking about what comes after having eaten. It is a past action from the point of view of the moment in the past when you were wishing that.

Let me do a small change in the translations provided to illustrate the difference:

1) Quería que lo hicieras. I wanted you to do it.

2) Quería que tú lo hubieras hecho. I wished that you'd have done it.

Answer 2

The Spanish pluperfect (aka past perfect) is used to indicate an action in the past that occurred before another action in the past. The latter can be either mentioned in the same sentence or implied.

That description is taken from an article on the pluperfect, indicative (pluscuamperfecto or past perfect) but the mood is irrelevant.

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The simple present subjunctive is used to indicate an action viewed as occurring at the same time or in the future when the governing verb is in the present, present perfect, future, future perfect, or a command form...The imperfect subjunctive is used in the same type of situations in which the present subjunctive is used, except that the governing verb is typically in a past tense (e.g., the preterit, imperfect, past perfect, conditional, conditional perfect, or one of the past subjunctives):

So...past perfect- dependent clause past time verb happens before main clause past time verb.

Quería que lo hubiera hiecho.

past- dependent clause verb takes place at same past time or in the future past time compared to the main clause past time..

Quería que lo hicieras. (hicieras is same past time or future past time compared to quería.