Le and Lo

0
votes

im still having some problems with LE and LO...(talking about UN HOMBRE in this case) not about objects..
my understanding is LO==> (him) as in lo veo (used to express feelings,sights....ect)
LE====> TO him as in le doy...

lets try these two verbs: cachetear y pegar (to punch)

LE cacheteé.
LO cacheteé.
for me the first one (LE) sounds to be the right one. (is it right? or it could be both'). someone told me that
LE cacheteé sounds like a formal way to insult (wich is kind of funny as she mentioned) '''? because LE is muy formal as i understood.

LE pegué.
LO pegué.
the same person told me that in this case its only LE pegué ''? i asked why and the answer was that the verb pegar is a tricky verb and it should be LE pegué not LO pegué.

i will be very happy if i am correct about the usage of LE (if an object is involved inbetween) and LO (to talk about feelings,sights...ect).

any ideas'''

4102 views
updated ENE 3, 2009
posted by PUNISHER

14 Answers

1
vote

To put it simply, it isn't true that LE is always the indirect object. There are essentially a couple of issues combined:
(1) there are some verbs which tend to always use LE for an ANIMATE masculine direct object;
(2) aside from that, the choice of LE vs LO (for referring to masculine animate direct objects) varies from variety to variety. (Perhaps less commonly, there is actually some variation in use of LA/LE as well.)

Now, in (1), pegar is one of those verbs where most speakers tend to use LE for a masculine animate object. So "I hit him" is always "le pegué", whereas "lo pegué" would mean "I hit it". Another common verb that works like this is creer. So "I believe him" is "LE creo", whereas "LO creo" would be interpreted as "I believe IT".

In (2), a common variant is what's sometimes referred to as leísmo animado: LE can be used instead of LO as a masculine direct animate object. So for example, in Mexico, either is possible in "LE/LO cacheteé". Similarly, "LE/LO llamé". There's really little reason to say that "LO" is more "correct": it's just that the assumption that speakers use "LO" for the masculine direct object simply isn't true.

updated NOV 2, 2015
posted by Neil-Coffey
0
votes

Neil Coffey said:

  • whether LE is analysed as direct or indirect, there's no particular reason or necesity to analyse "le pegué" as being an ellipsis, I don't think: a verb's object can be grammatically indirect without there necessarily being any direct object at all. Speakers (at least in Mexico -- would be interested if your experience differs) appear to judge examples such as "le pegué un golpe", "le pegué un puntapie" as being long-winded or non-idiomatic (e.g. "le DÍ un puñetazo" etc seems more normal) -- so analysing "le pegué" as an ellipsis of something that people would rarely say seems a bit questionable. By the way, Quentin -- if you had looked it up in the dictionary, you'd see that at least some analyse the object as being direct!!!

The confusion is normal, even among native speakers, which explains why one half of my family tend to say "la pegué", while the other half thinks "Oh, my God! How can they say that'". Whether it is common or not, it is unacceptable for the moment, which is what -I guess- most learners would like to know.

My Spanish dictionaries agree with me so far. The Real Academia Española wrote this:

pegar(se). 1. Cuando significa 'dar [un golpe o una serie de ellos] a alguien', es transitivo; además del complemento directo, lleva un complemento indirecto de persona: «Se volvió el ex boxeador hacia Charo y le pegó dos bofetadas que la tiraron al suelo» (VqzMontalbán Soledad [Esp. 1977]). A menudo se omite el complemento directo, por quedar implícito o sobrentendido; en ese caso, el complemento de persona, en la lengua culta de la mayor parte del ámbito hispánico, sigue considerándose indirecto: «No es caso insólito que a un santo cualquiera sus devotos le peguen y lo castiguen hasta que acceda al milagro que se le pide» (Ortiz Música [Cuba 1975]). No obstante, en estos casos, es normal que los hablantes de ciertas zonas de España interpreten el complemento de persona como directo: (INCORRECTO) «Nos dijo que su padre la pegaba» (País@[Esp.] 9.7.94); este uso, influido además por el régimen del verbo sinónimo golpear, que rige complemento directo de persona, solo se da en zonas laístas (? laísmo), por lo que se desaconseja en el habla culta. Lo mismo cabe decir si lo que recibe el golpe es una cosa: «Creo que le pego bien a la pelota» (Clarín [Arg.] 16.1.79).

By the way, Eddy, thanks for the comment. It is nice to know that I don't just annoy everyone.

updated ENE 3, 2009
posted by lazarus1907
0
votes

lazarus1907 said:

Guys, you are getting all this wrong:

Quentin said:

I don't see how it could be anything, but . The receiver is definitely the dirct object in both sentences.

Well, it is definitely not! The correct pronoun is LE, because the full sentence is:

Le pegué (un puñetazo/una torta/un golpe/una patada/tiro....)

where "un puñetazo/..." is the direct object, which is commonly omitted.If you say

Lo pegué.

You are saying that you glued him/it, or you are making a horrible "loísmo".

Just notice that people also say "pégaselo". You can also say:

¿Qué quieres que le pegue? ¿Una puñetazo o una torta?

El tiro se lo pegaron ayer.

Neil Coffey said:

To put it simply, it isn't true that LE is always the indirect object.

But this is not one of them, because in "le pegué", "le" is an indirect object.

Neil Coffey said:

Now, in (1), pegar is one of those verbs where most speakers tend to use LE for a masculine animate object. So "I hit him" is always "le pegué", whereas "lo pegué" would mean "I hit it".

No, "lo pegué" means "I glued him". The direct object in "le pegué" refers to the method used to hit someone, and the indirect one the person who receives the hit/bump/knock/stroke/kick/shot...

Wonderful explanation.

updated ENE 3, 2009
posted by Eddy
0
votes

Lazarus -- thanks for this clarification. Now I think about it a bit more (and have run some more sentences past speakers), it seems that "pegar" is going towards the object just being indirect as you say. However, as things stand, it's not quite so clear-cut:
- there are cases where the animate object appears to be direct, e.g.
pega a su esposa cuando está borracho (notice lack of "le", which obviously could be inserted and arguably sounds better, but this sentence without "le" also appears to be judged OK)
- examples from some Spanish authors such as "la insultaba y la pegaba" (quoted by Butt & Benjamin) -- but maybe this usage is dying out even in Spain?
- whether LE is analysed as direct or indirect, there's no particular reason or necesity to analyse "le pegué" as being an ellipsis, I don't think: a verb's object can be grammatically indirect without there necessarily being any direct object at all. Speakers (at least in Mexico -- would be interested if your experience differs) appear to judge examples such as "le pegué un golpe", "le pegué un puntapie" as being long-winded or non-idiomatic (e.g. "le DÍ un puñetazo" etc seems more normal) -- so analysing "le pegué" as an ellipsis of something that people would rarely say seems a bit questionable.
By the way, Quentin -- if you had looked it up in the dictionary, you'd see that at least some analyse the object as being direct!!!

updated ENE 3, 2009
posted by Neil-Coffey
0
votes

Thanks for the correction. That's what I meant by . I couldn't think of an implied direct oblject. Thank you for providing them.
I should have looked up pegar in the dictionary. It privides the d.o.'s and shows the use of le rather than lo
pegar

Guys, you are getting all this wrong:

lazarus1907 said:

Well, it is definitely not! The correct pronoun is LE, because the full sentence is:Le pegué (un puñetazo/una torta/un golpe/una patada/tiro....)where "un puñetazo/..." is the direct object, which is commonly omitted.If you sayLo pegué.You are saying that you glued him/it, or you are making a horrible "loísmo".Just notice that people also say "pégaselo". You can also say:¿Qué quieres que le pegue? ¿Una puñetazo o una torta'El tiro se lo pegaron ayer.

updated ENE 3, 2009
posted by 0074b507
0
votes

¿Qué pasó con el jarrón que se rompió?
Lo pegué y ha quedado perfecto.

updated ENE 3, 2009
posted by lazarus1907
0
votes

Guys, you are getting all this wrong:

Quentin said:

I don't see how it could be anything, but . The receiver is definitely the dirct object in both sentences.

Well, it is definitely not! The correct pronoun is LE, because the full sentence is:

Le pegué (un puñetazo/una torta/un golpe/una patada/tiro....)

where "un puñetazo/..." is the direct object, which is commonly omitted.If you say

Lo pegué.

You are saying that you glued him/it, or you are making a horrible "loísmo".

Just notice that people also say "pégaselo". You can also say:

¿Qué quieres que le pegue? ¿Una puñetazo o una torta?
El tiro se lo pegaron ayer.

Neil Coffey said:

To put it simply, it isn't true that LE is always the indirect object.

But this is not one of them, because in "le pegué", "le" is an indirect object.

Neil Coffey said:

Now, in (1), pegar is one of those verbs where most speakers tend to use LE for a masculine animate object. So "I hit him" is always "le pegué", whereas "lo pegué" would mean "I hit it".

No, "lo pegué" means "I glued him". The direct object in "le pegué" refers to the method used to hit someone, and the indirect one the person who receives the hit/bump/knock/stroke/kick/shot...

updated ENE 3, 2009
posted by lazarus1907
0
votes

thanx alot,,but expect from me to come back with an issue soon :(

updated ENE 2, 2009
posted by PUNISHER
0
votes

Ah, OK, I see what you're saying now.

updated ENE 2, 2009
posted by 00bacfba
0
votes

James -- yes, I think this is also the case in Mexico, but I don't think it contracts what I was saying. My point is if you say "lo pegué", this will be interpreted as "I hit IT", and never as "I hit HIM". However, I agree that another way of saying "I hit IT" could indeed be "LE pegué" (LO is definitely also possible with this meaning, though, at least in Mexico).

James Santiago said:

Neil wrote: So "I hit him" is always "le pegué", whereas "lo pegué" would mean "I hit it".

Not in my experience. The Spanish speakers where I live (predominantly Mexican) use le for objects very often. It is as though they are anthropomorphizing the object. In a baseball game, the parents will shout "Pégale (a la pelota)," and in a soccer game, "Dale." I've also heard people say "Pégale" referring to hitting a plumbing pipe with a hammer, etc. Interestingly, this form seems to be used more often in the imperative, and the same person might say "Tienes que pegarlo."

>

updated ENE 2, 2009
posted by Neil-Coffey
0
votes

Neil wrote:
So "I hit him" is always "le pegué", whereas "lo pegué" would mean "I hit it".

Not in my experience. The Spanish speakers where I live (predominantly Mexican) use le for objects very often. It is as though they are anthropomorphizing the object. In a baseball game, the parents will shout "Pégale (a la pelota)," and in a soccer game, "Dale." I've also heard people say "Pégale" referring to hitting a plumbing pipe with a hammer, etc. Interestingly, this form seems to be used more often in the imperative, and the same person might say "Tienes que pegarlo."

updated ENE 2, 2009
posted by 00bacfba
0
votes

well,,i have been told that if someone is not sure about a certain verb to use lo or le with it, its better to go for le.
but i insist to solve this problem. 'jumping on the laptop'

updated ENE 2, 2009
posted by PUNISHER
0
votes

I sometimes have trouble deciding which to use with certain verbs. For some reason, I always want to use le with llamar, instead of the correct lo/la. And with verbs that are newer to me, I often am unsure. (I'm just saying this so you'll know you aren't alone.)

Here is a discussion about this very topic:

<http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php't=158>

updated ENE 2, 2009
posted by 00bacfba
0
votes

I don't see how it could be anything, but . The receiver is definitely the dirct object in both sentences.
The other reference

updated ENE 2, 2009
posted by 0074b507