Pronomial vs reflexive vs reciprocal
I know this is a topic that has been discussed a lot but I am still confused by it. The more I research the topic the more I confuse myself. Would anyone be willing to explain the difference between these for me in simple terms.
I understand reflexive verbs such as "afeitarse" and "lavarse". These are simple to understand as they are verbs that one does to themselves. Taking away they reflexive pronoun simply means that you are not doing something you yourself. I would use "me afeito" to shave myself but if the barber was shaving me I would say "Me afeita", correct?
However, pronomial verbs are the ones I find hardest to understand. In particular, the verbs "burlarse (de)" and "llevarse bien con" are hard to understand.
Burlarse (de) is a pronomial and "llevarse bien con" is reciprocal, correct?
If somebody could correct any misunderstandings I have or use these verbs in a sentence I would appreciate it. Thanks!
7 Answers
I am going to make the same recommendation that I made to Jimmy.
Please, if you don't know your native grammar, please do not try to understand grammar from a foreign language.
If you think you know your native language's grammar because you can identify say 5 to 6 terms of your own grammar. Think again, and go back to really study your own grammar before embarking your self with that one from a foreign language.
I don't think I am asking something illogical, right?
up to you, though.
:-D
Edit: That's why i recommend translating from the target language to the native language, so that what was written in the target language can be understood in the native language.
Sounds complicated, but it really isn't.
Look ma! No hands! :-D
Re-edit for jimmy.
What I am saying does not have anything to do with having or not having reflexives in English, which is (self) 
But, I have no doubt that you as a native in English have good "grammar" that was acquired throght the years in school. (Same thing with me), but You still make probably mistakes that are not grammatically correct but that are accepted as "American slang" or whatever. But to know you own grammar with everything or most everything you went in school and then some. I don't think so. You are not a grammarian, per se. See? (Same with me) ;-D
Jimmy, that´s a very nice explanation! Another way to avoid the thought of "doing the action to one´s self" when considering reflexives is noting who is affected by the action.
We can also use reflexive while indicating both the speaker and the other person being affected by the action, ie: No te me vayas a cortar el pelo. Here Jimmy tells his girlfriend not to cut her hair and by adding me he indicates that he will also be affected. In this case he prefers his girlfriend´s hair long rather than short.
Jimmy y Su Novia se van a casar temprano ... Jimmy and his Girlfriend are going to get married or marry each other soon
In this sentence you have actually said: Jimmy and his girlfriend / fianceé are going to marry early (in the morning). Rather than temprano, we would say pronto / dentro de poco to indicate soon.
Dear,
Welcome to the twilight zone of reflexives .... the realm of pronomials and reflexives is a little mystic .. hehe
First of all .. Pronomial verbs is the classification that includes all the verbs that use the reflexive pronouns ,, Me, Te, Se, Nos, Os (Note :Don't confuse the reflexive me and te with the object pronouns me and te because they are said and written the same way but have a different conotation or meaning)
Reflexives and Reciprocals are the two uses or two dimenstions or two sides of the coin called Pronomial ..
So don't bother about pronomials because that is just the ruberic or a generalized name given to all the verbs that use a reflexive pronoun "se" ( and its subject based variations like me, te nos, os).. So once you have gotten a hold over Reflexives and Reciprocals ,, you can rest assured and say with pride that you have gotten a handle over the Pronomials .. So I will start with reciprocals first as they are easier to explain and understand ..
1st Reciprocal Pronomial use : The logic is fairly simple .. When you wish to use the english phrase "each other" in Spanish or otherwise wish to denote an action being done between two mutually exclusive subjects with a sense of mutual reciprocation .. Example .. There is a man called Jimmy and his Sweet Dogy called Leo .. now here the action of kissing takes place ,, but it is not mutual ,, because Jimmy kisses Leo all the time but Leo being a Dog can't respond back .. so this is a non-reciprocal action ,, on the other hand ,, if the action of kissing takes place between Jimmy and his girl friend .. that will be a mutual exchange of kisses and thus a reciprocal action (as both subjects of the sentence are kissing each other..
So If I am to put the above situations in Spanish sentences .. I would say :
1st situation : Jimmy and Leo : Jimmy besa a Leo todo el tiempo (Jimmy kisses Leo all the time),, Now this was a simple one way flow of the action not being reciprocated by the second subject so no need to use a reflexive pronoun ..
2nd Situation : Jimmy and his girlfriend : Jimmy y su Novia se besan por lo menos dos veces cada día ... Jimmy and his girlfriend kiss each other atleast twice every day ... Now here there is a sense of reciprocation .. it is a reciprocal action ,, both subjects reciporacte to each other ,,,,
Similarly ,,, Jimmy y Su Novia se van a casar temprano ... Jimmy and his Girlfriend are going to get married or marry each other soon ... (again Marriage is a reciprocal relationship where both subjects are equally contributing to the action) ...
Similary ... se pelean el un al otro ... they are fighting with each other ..
Ok I hope you understand the Reciprocals now .. so lets segue forth to the reflexives now :
Now this aspect of the pronomicals is very poorly understod by many .. because most people think that it means "the action is being done to one self" well no .. not atall .. and that is the reason why you seem to be confused .. The reflexive just means that the action is reflecting some aspect of the subject in one way or the other .. My friend I will have to adjourn my explication here for today .. My eyes are aching badly .. have been before the computer the whole day .. but once you understand the logic behind the reciprocals we will continue further with our jouney further down the rabit hole (Alice in the wonder land of reflexives ,, hehe ) ,,,
Sorry for having to stop for now .. see you later .,, bye bye
Jimmy said: Reflexives and Reciprocals are the two uses or two dimenstions or two sides of the coin called Pronomial .. So don't bother about pronomials because that is just the ruberic or a generalized name given to all the verbs that use a reflexive pronoun "se" ( and its subject based variations like me, te nos, os).. So once you have gotten a hold over Reflexives and Reciprocals ,, you can rest assured and say with pride that you have gotten a handle over the Pronomials .. So I will start with reciprocals first as they are easier to explain and understand ..
While this is all very good information there is a third, fairly large set of pronomial verbs. Those with idiomatice usage. With these pronomial verbs the meaning of the verb often changes substantially. Here is a link to a short list of this type of pronomial verbs. You will see some very common verbs here, for example irse and caerse.
You might find it helpful to review the grammar section of this site as linked below. I think Annie's example sentence in excellent and worth remembering. I'm going to hazard a guess that pronomial verbs include both reflexive and reciprocal. It is questions like these that exemplify the difficulty of learning a language through grammar - however, some of us like grammar so we put up with it (entonces nos lo llevamos)
Thanks for the replies everyone, but I am still confused.
Let's go back to the verbs I had mentioned.
"Burlarse de" - Why is this reflexive? I make sun of someone else, or they make fun of me, right? If I didn't know any better I would say: Yo "te burlo" for "I make sun of you". Do we simply make "burlarse" reflexive since it is very different from the verb "burlar"?
Next, to get along with soemone I would say "llevarse bien con". I understand this since both people are involved and must contribute to the relationship in order to have a good time. So: We get along well would be "Nos llevamos bien", correct? How then, would I say "You get along with Joe"?
Thanks for anyone who can take the time to explain these to me!
Tenemos que llevarnos bien con nuestros enemigos y no burlarnos de ellos. ( We have to behave well towards our enemies and not mock them)
