"updated": Interesting point of view by a newbie: Human interaction can be richer than textbooks and at times more valuable than the dictionary.
I received the following PM by a newbie who felt somewhat embarrassed to ask more questions as he was sent "elsewhere" as he put it.
( I have his permission to post this)
For a newbie it is essential to :
A) Go to the dictionary first. (we cannot have 100 questions about the word "amar", there are lots of examples in the dictionary)
B) If you find about ten definitions and don't know which might fit in your context, you might try the phrasebook,
C) Make a search on our forum, there are dozens of threads that explain the same topics, but if you can't find it Ask on the forum yourself!
I saw a post the other day which I personally found rather confusing. A newbie was sent to Wordreference to find threads as there one can find a lot of questions answered. But sending any member to a different forum, that is really taking it too far.
I agree with him that if you think about it, almost anything can be found on the web, if you look for it long enough , for that matter, why have an "Answers" forum if you will be sent elsewhere to look anyway?
Please share your views.
I understand the concept of helping you (ustedes) help me. However, I think that human interaction can be richer than textbooks and at times more valuable than the dictionary. Por ejemplo, the picture of tapas that Kevin B posted. I have that vision in memory with that word now I will always remember tapas where as if i just read it in black and white I might forget.
Im shy of asking a question because, every question that can be asked there can be researched elsewhere, the responses of why dont you look elsewhere are humiliating. However, the truth is., who can ask a question there without it being possible to look in a textbook? Human interraction to a specific, honest question is awesome. What honest vocabulary and grammar question can be asked without looking elsewhere? Maybe, just not out of laziness of self research, but really, I dont live in mexico and I dont live in spain. So my point is, maybe asking a question to the whole world might give me the answer better than any texbook and in the exact same context I asked the question in?
I just felt a little discouraged oops, I wont let it get me down. I just wish some of the users wouldnt be so quick to say, look elsewhere.
I think in conclusion we can make the following changes or not really changes but adaptations:
A) Instead of sending the member directly to the dictionary, answer the question if you wish or can and tell him to look there next time.
B) I find the translator really confusing. I answered a question yesterday , I thought very straightforward, put it into the translator and trash came out. So sending the member to the translator is really quite useless, even though it is good for the site
C) If you see the question has been asked a hundred times...just include one thread in the answer and ask the member to make a search.
D) Please indicate the member to use correct capitalization, but if you see that this person repeatedly ignores the indication, please flag the post or let us know by PM, we have had a case like this recently. This is another point that distinguishes us from Yahoo answers, correct spelling is not required as it is not a learning site.
E) If you see a member post a homework question just ignore it or give him the correct indication, we do not do homework on this site, we help with it.
F) Some people use the answer section as a translation service , which is not the aim of this site. Please let us know if you see anything like this.
G) If a member old or new, uses the translator for a work, even a word // picture of the day answer or homework claiming that it is their doing, please don't correct it, we only correct work that has been done by the member himself.
26 Answers
In my opinion, this sentence exposes a very important point:
I'm shy of asking a question because, every question that can be asked there can be researched elsewhere
I have read many times in this Forum that "all answers can be found in the dictionary" I can understand why this is sometimes a good answer, but honestly, I don't think so.
Do you have any questions about any language? How to understand the word friend? What is love? How to understand the phrase "Contigo al fin del mundo"? Oh, don't worry! I have my dictionary here, it's very complete and it explains everything!
Please... Do you really think that the word friend can be covered by a dictionary? If a dictionary could collect all the wisdom and all the nuances of the world we would be lost, folks. What a boring world this would be!
Besides, if the Internet continued growing at this rate, the sense of this Forum would be lost in a short time. More and more daily threads, more and more dictionary entries collected, translators work better each time ... If everything were so mathematical there would soon come the moment when we wouldn't have anything to talk about here.
Fortunately, this won't happen. We are human beings, we are not so simple.
I agree...human interaction is essential. A textbook answer is exactly that...a textbook answer. It cannot provide experience or give a different insight into a question as much as a real person can. A spanish native for example might say a Spanish phrase in a different way, from their own unique experience. We should not be quick to dismiss people who want to learn and develop through the help of other individuals, people who want to understand through different experiences. I've always thought that online translators, do not really help a person to truly understand, but it is us as unique beings that can help make a difference to learning by sharing our own opinions.
For the most part, I think the forum members are handling questions appropriately.
When a question is elementary in the sense that the dictionary or the translator will produce exactly what the questioner wanted, it's appropriate to send them there, respectfully. The questioner gets what he wants: an experienced human interaction. If that interaction results in referral to the dictionary or translator, the expert should be sure (or have confirmed) that the indicated resource really has that information. This leaves the questioner with only a small amount of work to do, and usually improves the questioner's awareness of the resources, and improves study habits.
When the experts here recognize that links to other resources will not work well due to the need for interpretation or context, we usually answer directly, and I hope we also include some helpful links.
When a question is from a total newbie, and the nature of the question is obviously practical and urgent ("I want to tell my workers that payroll will be one day late!!!") then a direct answer is probably appropriate, until and unless this questioner returns frequently for more translation services.
I could likely have been the culprit described by the user. I have provided links to other web sites when they
- provide validation or description to a term in the user question
- offer a descriptive or definitive article relating to the user question
- give additional information too verbose for this post
I personally do not believe we should refrain from sending users to other sites if they offer assistance as indicated above. Human interaction is good, to be sure, but some questions are best answered with differing perspectives.
I can not believe it is possible for one person to answer all the questions without any reference material. There are, certainly, highly skilled members of this forum that can offer well advised solutions. But I believe the best solutions can be provided by a number of contributors, including articles, dictionaries, etc.
I would be more concerned with the turse and condescending answers I often see on the forum. They are the ones that frustrate and aggrevate new members. Maybe a question seems silly to an experienced member, but many of us wrestle with grammar and spelling.
I recommend we all remember that many people on this site are skilled, trained professionals who have or will contribute much to society, and seek to learn another language in order to become more skilled. We are not all lazy high-school students wanting someone else to do our homework.
A very respected SD member responded to this English phrase:
I wrote on skype - As we say "you can say that again!"
He replied with:
="Desde luego!"
="¡Por la cara!" (this one is maybe only used in Spain)
Now I know what they mean but if I had heard or seen the phrases out of context I wouldn't have had a clue.
Would looking them up in the translator be any help?
I would have had to ask here on SD.
Damas y Caballeros:
Doing ones own research is a valuable and important part of studying and learning in any field. Now when it comes to language, I in particular ,as many new members encounter dead ends for idioms and colloquialisms. That is when I come to the forum. We all will, sooner or later ask a silly question, and hope not to be scolded for asking. For all of you that are advanced or fluent or both, Yes! do scold us for inappropriate things,and yes, again, we new members must take our own responsibility to do our "homework'' before coming to the forum, but on the other hand,we are here to learn. So please be tolerant and helpful.
I don't ask many questions. And I rarely have the best answer so answer fewer these days. I must say I have felt put off by the knee jerk "we are not a translation service "type comments. Maybe they already did all the things suggested and they need reinforcement from someone else. If you look at points most of them are new to the site.JohnDOe04 pretty much sums it up for me.
If it is annoying, ignore it.It is not like they can see you ignoring them.
Heidita, we usually direct the new person to the translator for a homework question. How is a new Spanish student going to learn Spanish without using the tools on this site such as the translator?
The process of researching a question by locating resources is an integral part of forming a successful approach to any academic endeavor. If after utilizing the available resaerch tools, one still has not satisfactorily answered the question for himself(herself), then coming to the forum would be an appropriate option. How many times have we seen, "I tried the translator/dictionary, but still don't understand?" Usually that type of comment results in several persons jumping in to help.
I think allowing a questioners to just sit back and watch the replies come in without making any effor on his own to find an answer does them no service.
So the issue here is not if you can ask a question, but rather have you used the tools available, before you ask the question.
This is a concept that comes up for discussion far too frequently. All too often it results in some of us getting an opportunity to address the concept, but, then nothing evolves from the discussion. By way of example, look at these 2 threads in the last 30 days:
----> Treatment of New Members, and
If neither of those threads resulted in any change in the way questions are answered, we must ask ourselves then where is this same concept now raised in this thread going and will it result in any proposed improvements.
For me it all comes down to this. I will continue to work away at a style of reply that respects the person who raised the question. But, as many of you know I am one of the members who encourages questioners to provide enough data and do enough on their own so as to be able to help us to help them to an answer.
¡Keep your best intentions in the forefront at all times.!
I rely on the human interaction angle and that's why I spend time on this site. Language is about nuance, subtlety, the intricate connotations of the seemingly mundane. No dictionary or "expert system" can cover the diverse wonders that a human can point to in speech. After all, language is the toolkit of thought and knowledge and is, so some say, (I'm not convinced), unique to humans.
I speak to birds and other animals and they speak to me. I have taught blackbirds tunes and they have taught me tunes. Just so you know... not an average nutter pal... a complete nutter 
I just felt a little discouraged oops, I wont let it get me down. I just wish some of the users wouldnt be so quick to say, look elsewhere.
Some days there are endless questions about "why is Spanish backward to English" and other such questions that one's patience and tolerance wear thin. Obviously these types of questions are from absolute newbies and they may be asked in innocence but they do tend to try one's patience.
There is a thin line between giving someone an answer and encouraging him to try to find the answer. Some might take the challenge while others might be put off by it. We are all different and we all take things differently; I don't know the answer. Some users can word the encouragement nicely while others come across quite brusquely.
This student seems to have been here long enough to know his way around and is serious about learning. I think he is right that human interaction is essential. I tried to learn from a book then stumbled onto the lessons on this site and it was an eye opener for me. I believe the chats would be another eye opener for me but I'm not brave enough yet.
I agree that we need to give them the tools . I usually show them the links to to the translator and the dictionary, as well as the lessons. If I were new, an answer telling me to research the site would discourage me. At least give me a link to some of the research, (I know some of you do), and start me off with some information. And come back later to see how they are doing. If they haven't posted a translation, give them some help.
I have found the people who answer posts in the Answers Forum to be exceptionally helpful, usually going beyond the call of duty, bending over backwards and really extending themselves (how's that for three incongruous metaphors?)
The exceptions that I especially remember were: 1. Skater dude 2. The person who asked if they were bi-polar (and I recommended they see a medical professional) 3. A couple of people a day who don't know about the translation function
For the people who are referred to the translation function, many times someone jumps in with the translation anyway. Everyone here is super-helpful.
Last night there were members offering answers for math homework. I thought this was also particularly generous, and said so.
My interest in helping people who are fully capable of helping themselves is waning. Helping people like this tends to instill in them an entitlement attitude. Teach a man to fish and he eats for a lifetime. Give a man a fish and he eats for a day.
Yes, very interesting indeed. It is amazing when you think about it. Two year olds learning spanish at a much faster rate than some adults. Why do some adults learn spanish much slower than the two year old? Is it because he is stupid? I don't think so. I think he discovered that the rules are much different than the language he grew up with. I think learning a second language is more difficult than learning a first language for some adults. I think it is because we as adults make it harder than it has to be. Yes, I understand that as adults we have the capacity to think indepth and knowing grammar rules is important for proper grammar, however. Why would a two year old learn spanish much more quickly than an adult? How does a two year old learn? Maybe his secret is that he asks several, several questions in a simple manner. I think 100 simple questions asked is sometimes wiser than 1 "intelligent" one. Just my view. Just an idea. Perhaps a two year old or any young child, for that matter is not hindered by understanding grammatical differences? Perhaps, it then is more important for the adult to ask more questions, just like a two year old. I also agree that those questions can be asked in a dictionary or search (ask many). And I also agree that human interraction is essential as it is very valuable.
