me dueles ?
Gurus
As much as I love this song its giving me a headache grammatically speaking.
First I simply assumed it means "You hurt me" and it seemed to make perfect sense. Then my Spanish buddy throws me off again by saying "No it's Me Duele !" I told him the song was called "Me Dueles" but he insists that's not correct.
According to him the verb "doler" is used to say "I'm hurting" or "I'm hurt" or "My arm hurts" and so forth. Me duele el brazo.
I asked him how to say "You hurt me" and he said "Me lastimas" for example.
What bugs me tremendously is that a band from Spain such as La Quinta would sing something totally wrong ? I mean they must know right ? What does "Me dueles" sound like to a native speaker ?
Assuming it really is wrong then how would I know ? I can't find anything in the dictionary that shows me that the word "doler" cannot be used to hurt someone else. The only hint I guess I have is that it has no examples in there saying "You hurt me" but then again a dictionary cannot mention every single way a word is used. I probably have to learn how to read a dictionary better.
Any feedback is appreciated !
Thanks
71 Answers
When people tell you "doler" is like "gustar" that is not supposed to be the case in correct grammar, but in your example it is. "Me gusta helado" means ice cream pleases me. So "me" is the indirect object. "helado" is the subject. Ice cream pleases me. So "me dueles", could also be, "tu me dueles", you hurt me. The problem is that when you teach grammar, you teach that "dolerse" is only a reflexive verb meaning the hurt is withing the person or the person is doing it to themselves. "Lastimar", "hacer daño" are the correct verbs to use when saying you are harming someone else. You can say, "Me lastimaste", "You hurt me". So basically, in a song, the forum is forgetting that poetic license is what is being used. How many rap songs do you hear that are grammatically correct but don't they sound great?
Me duele is not gramatically correct. It sounds like the song is trying to say I am hurt by another "me daña".
Ok if we have arrived at that then we still have massively different interpretations of it.
Now there are 3 folks who see this as her having so much empathy for his pain that it hurts her but my buddy totally doesn't agree with that either.
I'm ready to accept that it's wrong but can be used poetically. However what is it supposed to convey ?
- So much empathy for someone else that it hurts you.
- Hurting inside because of someone else having done things to you before but not this moment.
Heidita I'm still somewhat unsure what you think since you say it means nothing and cannot be translated but on the other hand you allow it as part of creative freedom ? If you had to choose would you prefer 1. or 2. then ?
Janice not sure what to tell you. Go to B&N this weekend and take a look. Its that orange dictionary I'm sure they have that in every branch.
Hi Stucky101, you have mentioned that you had reference to the hardcover Collins Concise Dictionary.
But see my prior entry in which, curious about that dictionary, I decided to download it.... albeit I picked the Unabridged.
I copied and pasted Collin´s entry for doler here in that same entry.
No "vt"...only "vi"....in the unabridged...
really nice it is figurative mostly used in poetic descriptions, as most people said up it is figurative to explain that the person or whatever else cause pain to you cause you feel identified or compromised with that person and therefore what happens you sympathetic to you as well
Don't panic. Consider the details.
Me duele el brazo.
How am I supposed to know whether this is a transitive or intransitive example ? They never label the examples themselves so how am I to know ? For all I know this might mean "My arm hurts me" in a transitive way and the "vt" label supports that
First: Is the verb reflexive?
If it is, then me is a reflexive pronoun and the verb would have to be duelo. Me duelo....
Since the verb is duele then the verb is not reflexive. (it is not se duele)
Is the Spanish sentence transitive? I hurt my arm.
Again, if the verb were transitive it would have to be duelo; not duele Yo duelo el brazo. Since it is duele it must be intransitive.
For all I know this might mean "My arm hurts me" in a transitive way
Go back and read Heidita's and my discussion about these intransitive sentences in Spanish translating to transitive sentences in English.
A ella le gusta el libro. (intransitive in Spanish) [the book is pleasing to her]
but in English, it translates to a transitive sentence.
She likes the book.
In all of the gustar like verb sentences the i.o.p. in the Spanish sentence becomes the subject in the English sentence and the subject of the Spanish sentence becomes the direct object of the English sentence and the intransitive Spanish sentence become English transitive. Example:
A ella le gusta el libro. (the book is pleasing to her-intransitive)
le, ella=i.o. in Spanish become the subject=she in English. el libro=subject in Spanish becomes the direct object in English
She likes the book. (transitive)
So follow that pattern in your sentence.
Me duele el brazo. My arm hurts or my arm is painful to me. (intransitive in Spanish)
Me=i.o in the Spanish sentence becomes the subject of the English sentence. el brazo=subject of the Spanish sentence become the direct object of the English sentence.
Therefore, Me duele el brazo (intransitive in Spanish)
translates to:
I hurt my arm. transitive in English (and not "my arm hurts me").
Heidita
BTW. Here is something interesting.
My spanish buddy agrees with you on "Me dueles" being wrong but "Me duelen los zapatos" is something he fully supports. "My shoes are causing me pain" NOT "My shoes are in pain". Can you confirm that you consider this as incorrect as "Me dueles" ?
Heidita
It's actually the real book. I posted this earlier in my thread which one it is. Here it is again :
Collins Spanish Concise Dictionary 5th Edition 2008
doler - vt,vi to hurt: (fig) to grieve dolerse - vr (de su situación) - to grieve, to feel sorry, to complain
vs.
Oxford Spanish Desk Dictionary 4rth edition 2009
doler - vi (a) to hurt; no duele nada - it doesn't hurt at all (+me/te/le etc) le dolió mucho - it hurt a lot
All this wouldn't be such a big problem if
- I hadn't seen this "vt" label and
- If there weren't other Spanish natives just like you who use this phrase.
Thing is, according to you it means nothing useful at all. So it's a poetic song - so what ? It still should mean "something" and we can't even figure that out. That's why I'm frustrated. I mean isn't the very point of a lyric to bring something across ? According to you and my Spanish buddy she is saying nothing really.
So if you heard that on the Radio would you go "What the hell" ? I have no clue what she is trying to say ? Or would you say "This sounds so ghetto but I know what she means".
Is this like singing "We was walking" in an English song ?
Also, do you really thing a proper, official dictionary sold in stores has such a huge mistake in there ? This makes this book completely useless since I cannot trust it at all.
Sorry for feeling like a parrot. It's just that not everybody seems to agree. Did you have a thought in the fact that this word is labeled transitive in the Collins Dictionary ? You admit this conflicts with your statement right ?
HI stucky, as far as I could see I am the only native speaker who has answered this thread so far. And the only native who has just tuned in, of course, agrees with me. 
This is the dictionary you should check for these kind of questions:
doler. (Del lat. dol?re). 1. intr. Dicho de una parte del cuerpo: Padecer dolor, mediante causa interior o exterior. Doler la cabeza, los ojos, las manos.
intr. Dicho de una cosa: Causar pesar o aversión. Le dolió la incomprensión de la gente.
prnl. Arrepentirse de haber hecho algo y tomar pesar de ello.
prnl. Dicho de una persona: Sentir pesar de no poder hacer lo que quisiera, o de un defecto natural, aunque no sea por culpa suya ni esté en su mano remediarlo.
prnl. Compadecerse del mal que alguien padece.
prnl. Quejarse y explicar el dolor.
If your collins dictionary labels this a a transitive verb...well, go write a letter this is not correct.
Pocket Oxford Spanish Dictionary © 2005 Oxford University Press: doler (conjugate?) verbo intransitivo
Please link me to the site where you have seen this.
Heidita
Sorry for feeling like a parrot. It's just that not everybody seems to agree. Did you have a thought in the fact that this word is labeled transitive in the Collins Dictionary ? You admit this conflicts with your statement right ?
There is not such thing as "Me dueles",in Spanish, the correct translation for "You hurt me is "Me lastimas," o "me haces daño"
Hello all.
I think a good poetic translation would be "you hurt on me"...
Janice Thanks that makes sense. I didn't put 1 + 1 together. What throws me off is the "como" here. I thought of that as "like" or "how".
Me dueles como duele el tiempo, que yo he tirado a tu lado.
I read that as "I regret you , just like (como) I regret the time spent with you" and it just didn't make sense. What would make sense is this :
I regret the time spent with you.
Done. I don't know what the "como" is doing here. I guess its more like "because of" ?
However, I have an idea for the main problem now.
Me dueles - I regret you ?
Could this work ? Maybe were looking at the wrong word all along (hurt) ?
Me dueles como duele el tiempo, que yo he tirado a tu lado, me dueles como duelen los ojos, de haberte llorado tanto.
I don't know about dueles, but the case of "time" seems to be a use analagous to the third entry -- "importar" meaning of doler -- given in the Gran Diccionario Oxford:
c (importar): no me duele el dinero que me he gastado I don't regret spending that much money
In other words, she regrets the time spent "que yo he tirado a tu lado", - the time she spent by his side."
And "me duelen los ojos" seems clearly to tell us that her eyes hurt because "de haberte llorado tanto", she cried so much over him.
By the way, the case of doler imparting the meaning of "importar" as shown in Gran Diccionario Oxford is mirrored in the entry from the Collins Unabridged:
no me duele gastarme el dinero en esto I don't mind spending money on this, spending money on this doesn't bother me
The dictionary example is in the negative...the subject does NOT mind having spent the money. The phrase from the song, on the other hand, is in the positive...The protagonist DOES mind having spent so much time by the dueles subject´s side.
So we are back to "getting it" all but for the "dueles" part.
Renaerules
Thanks and welcome to the thread from hell ! I mean that in the best way possible.
Your example shows how to use a word backwards as far as direction goes. "Can you borrow me that" would technically indicate that I would like you to borrow something on my behalf.. ? Something like that. Does everyone agree that this example comes close ?
I also like you statement about wanting to understand why it's used. That's been my question all along if you read the entire thread. However, then it turned into a discussion of whether or not it is even grammatically wrong. Not everybody agrees on that. No I'm not even sure if it can be transitive on top of intransitive or not. I'm staring at both my books again:
Collins Spanish Concise Dictionary 5th Edition 2008
doler - vt,vi to hurt: (fig) to grieve dolerse - vr (de su situación) - to grieve, to feel sorry, to complain
vs.
Oxford Spanish Desk Dictionary 4rth edition 2009
doler - vi (a) to hurt; no duele nada - it doesn't hurt at all (+me/te/le etc) le dolió mucho - it hurt a lot
So we have "vt,vt.vr" versus "vi" only. Both are wrong correct ? One is labeling it as "vt" when it shouldn't and the other doesn't recognize the "vr" ?
Even if we all agree that it is totally acceptable then we're still not sure what exactly it means.
- You hurt me
- The thought of you hurts me
- I'm hurting because of you
- You are hurting and I'm so close to you that it makes me hurt
Then there is still the issue of
Me duelen los zapatos. Is is "My shoes are hurting" or "My shoes are in pain" ? and No me duele el dinero. Is it "I don't mind about the money" or "My money is not in pain" ?
I mean I obviously know what the semantical answers are but grammatically I'm still unclear. Is this almost like leismo/loismo etc... where its so common that its accepted even when its actually wrong ? (Like using "le" as a DO in place of "lo" even though "le" is not and never will be a DO) ?
