SpanishDict Community Phrasebook: We want your input!
Hi everyone,
There has been a lot of great activity lately in the community with people coming up with Spanish words and phrases. It's wonderful to see so much enthusiasm for the language.
We are working on a new concept that would allow the members to create an outstanding resource for all students of Spanish: the SpanishDict Community Phrasebook. The idea is to create a large collection of phrases and compound words that would appear on the dictionary page. Here are some rough sketches of how the phrasebook might look:
Community Phrasebook on the Dictionary Results Page
Phrases Needing Translations and Latest Activity
To get started, we would make available a list of phrases that we know people are looking for, but that we don't have in the dictionary. Perhaps we could set a goal of trying to get to 5,000 phrases after a few months? Just an idea.
Here's the thing, this is a community phrasebook, so we want your input. Here are a couple of questions about Phrasebook for your input:
- What do you think about the idea?
- What should be the guidelines for allowing an entry into the phrasebook?
- What should be the process for approving entries?
Just to get the discussion started, I'll offer a sample response:
- I think the idea is great! But, I want to make sure that the quality of the entries is high.
- I think the Phrasebook should be focused on phrases, compound words, and example sentences (and the Dictionary will be itself will remain the source for single word entries)
- I think the process for vetting entries is that anyone should be able to propose an entry, but that in order for it to make it live onto the site, it must be approved by two high level members of the community.
These are just some thoughts. Let's here your ideas!
22 Answers
I like the idea of a "community phrasebook," and I also like the idea of the inclusion of example sentences. I think that one of the biggest problems with learning new phrases is often the lack of context that goes along with the phrases (as to when it might be appropriate to use). Having adequate examples is definitely a good idea.
I think that it would probably be a good idea if it were alphabetized in both Spanish and English and browsable/searchable by keyword, topic and by alphabetization, but keyword or even topic/key idea would probably be the most beneficial way to search it. For example,
1). "eat like a horse"
2). "stuff oneself"
3). "llenarse la andorga"
4). "henchir el baúl"
5). "comer como una lima"
6). "comer como un sabañon"
7). "comer a dos carrillos"
All of these are very similar in there meaning, but many have different key words. It would be helpful if similar expressions such as these would also reference each other whenever possible so that other suitable substitutes might be able to be found more easily. It might also be helpful to include links to not just similar/synonymous expressions but related expressions as well. For example, the following expressions are related, but not necessarily synonymous as one implies a strong feeling of hunger; whereas, the other involves an overindulgence in eating:
1). Eat like a horse
2). So hungry I could eat a horse
As far as submission guidelines, I thought that the way Moe handled posting his "personal a" reference article was a good idea. He posted a draft version on the forum and allowed other members to critique it before posting the final version on the reference page. This allowed open access to the tentative version by more experienced community members and native speakers who were able to make suggestions for improvement. Such suggestions could include
1). Example sentences
2). Corrections to grammar, usage, etc.
3). Notes on regional usages and differences in regional usage.
4). Suggestions for similar phrases/synonymous phrases
5). Suggestions for related phrases
6). Comments as to whether others in the community feel the suggested reference is appropriate.
I think that this would probably be a good first step towards keeping the quality of entries high. What do you think?
I love this idea and I am so excited about learning some new idiomatic expressions through the dictionary. You know, we get tons of traffic to the dictionary, so hopefully we can reach our goal of 5,000 super quickly. Especially if anyone is allowed to add an entry. No sign up required (although, we hope they'll stay and see what a great learning community we have).
I am not sure what kind of phrases should be included. A lot of people who look up "bathroom" would definitely like to know "Where is the bathroom?" while many other people would be interested to know a more obscure phrase like "dar un baño" which can mean "to thrash/beat someone at something."
I think the new phrases/idioms should have at least 2 approvals from users with over maybe 5,000 reputation? It would be ideal if one of these approvals was from a native speaker, but I'm not sure if that will always be possible.
Well, yes, I think it's a great idea.
However, I feel it would be wasted if it simply duplicated what the translator already does quite efficiently. If I need to translate "How do I get to the Hospital", for example, the translator does that very well.
Where it does fall down, however, is on the more idomatic phrases. I can ask it to translate "nest egg", and get "huevo de jerarquía", or "mare's nest", when it gives me "nido de yegua", but I then have no idea whether these phrases actually mean what I am trying to say. (You can tell I was trying to do Issa's picture of the day a few days ago, can't you?)
So it would be great if it included the more common idioms with their alternatives from both languages.
As far as vetting entries goes, yes, anyone should be able to propose phrases for inclusion, and I like the idea of approval being needed from two "high level" members. I do think though, that there should be at least one native speaker of each language involved in the approval process as it is very easy to make drastic mistakes in the idioms of another language!
I think that this is a great idea!
However, we should only do the "weird" phrases because the translator function already does the "non-weird" translations pretty well.
How about we list somewhere as in the blog, or maybe on an answer section in where we post the "weird phrases" and then, maybe a few weeks later, get everybody together and translate those "weird" phrases.
All in all, I think that this is a great idea.
What do you think about the idea?
-This is a great idea, one of the greatest steps Span¡shD!ct has taken. My only question is, how bout those spanish games. Please see this post.
What should be the guidelines for allowing an entry into the phrasebook?
-It must be educational. Slang (remember not all slang is bad) and other terms not normally available in the forum should be available here for those who want to go all the way, sin límites. Of course it would be a place for learning phrases and things that aren't always directly addressed. Like a mastery tool for comprehension.
What should be the process for approving entries?
-I think entries should be reviewed by admin, and maybe even develop a group of the most tenured members with high rep, to check the admin. Sort of like a "checks and balances" deal.
My second idea is simple...I agree with the sample
I think the process for vetting entries is that anyone should be able to propose an entry, but that in order for it to make it live onto the site, it must be approved by two high level members of the community.
Christopher, I think this is an excellent idea.
Some of the questions I have found the most difficult to answer are those related to areas of expertise that not everyone is interested in. For instance, I am always searching for help with music terminology or medical terminology because they are areas I work in. It would be so great to have a place to go to find at least the basic terminology or phases for these and similar areas/hobbies, etc. I think it would increase traffic to the site also, because these areas are sorely lacking on the web. I would love to help you with phrases from my areas of expertise and I'm sure with the variety of professions/skills of other members, others would be willing to help as well.
I agree that approval should be for members with established reputation. It seems like the 10K + club is growing. It might be nice to work on a rotational basis with this group for approval. By doing this, you will receive the wisdom and benefit from a variety of personalities, establish "checks and balances" as some have mentioned, and also give several people the opportunity to have experience with doing something like this. This would be especially helpful if you are planning on expanding or adding any more similar features in the future. It would be an excellent training ground. I think it is definitely wise to obtain an administrator's final approval, at least until this feature is well established.
Also, I am not sure exactly how this will work, but it might be nice to do the reverse for our friends who are learning English. I am thinking of Nila, who always keeps us on our toes with questions about the proper way to phrase English sentences.
This is exciting,
Nicole
The vetting of translations should be by "native speakers". Quentin and I (he more than I) have acquired lots of "points" either by responding to threads in the forum or (in "the good old days") providing comments on answers to lessons (in fact, it didn't matter if our responses were correct or not, what counted was that we had responded).
Responding, specifically, to the comment by Sheila-Foste, i.e using the "translator" to provide phrases (idioms); The results from the translator are frequently horrible (sometimes, simply poor translations; sometimes, phrases that no native speaker would actually say). This is, in part, due to the complications of translating an entire phrase. In many cases (assuming that the user can identify the "key" word in the phrase (and,admittedly, not all users can) a collection of phrases/idioms involving that word can be helpful/suggestive). However, it is also obvious that many of those who post questions did not bother to consult the dictionary entry or (more often) read only the first few entries.
The vetting of translations should be by "native speakers"
Paralee said: we don't know if this can be done.
I think the new phrases/idioms should have at least 2 approvals from users with over maybe 5,000 reputation? It would be ideal if one of these approvals was from a native speaker, but I'm not sure if that will always be possible.
well, If this cannot be done, then this should not happen. I would like to remind all users of Chamaco, he had no less than 5.4 rep points and his Spanish was/is abhorrent.
If it is a Spanish phrase, it simply must be checked by a Spanish speaking native, if it is an English idiom, it must be checked by an English speaking native!
As an example, please check this thread. Another member's answer was accepted as correct and was completely wrong.
If this is to be a serious dictionary contribution, the checking of natives is essential,
I really like the idea, and I also like the proposed format; showing results related to the word on the dictionary page. I also agree that entries should first be approved by a moderator for quality purposes. I also think an idiom generator would be helpful too, I have noticed a lot of people requesting translations for idioms..which is not easy to do unless you really know the language well.
That's a great idea. How about creating also some phrases and sentences around popular topics, like phone conversations, getting around, in a restaurant, computer language, greetings etc. I could contribute - there are some topics that I opened some time ago.
The guidelines for allowing an entry into the phrasebook: for members with high reputation, trusted people, that have contributed to SpanishDict for a longer period of time (e.g. Goyo, Marianne, Sunshinezmom, Seitheach, Eddy, Moe, Nicole, Ian-Francis, Webdunce, Mortimer)
The process of approving entries - I think it would be wise to choose a few people with high reputation and, at least, intermediate command of language. Heidi, Qfreed and Izan would be my choice (I would add Lazarus & Robertico to the list, but they don't seem to be round here anymore).
As for the dictionary, I would leave it as it is and improve if neccessary (conjugation, missing words etc.).
All in all, I'm voting the idea up.
I think this is a great idea as well.
First, plenty of idioms appear in newspapers and other media that can be really hard to find in the dictionary (especially if they happen to involve a word like "echar"!)
Secondly, I would personally love to see some semi-technical phrases that I need to communicate about my work. Not the super technical stuff (I know I need a specialized dictionary to find "stormwater abatement") but things that I might want to explain to a friend, like
environmental science wind energy going green
I'm sure other fields have similar intermediate level vocabulary. It would be great to ask native speakers in either language to compile a list of expressions that would be useful in their field, and then seek translations.
What's the point of learning Spanish if someone else is just giving you the answer? Then it just becomes a memorization exercise. I find the challenge of translating a phase gives me a better understanding of how the language works. Once I figure it out, then I ask my Spanish speaking friends to check my work and guide me.
I'd love to have a place to learn phrases and maybe show some phrases to others. It can be hard to speak or write in Spanish that sounds authentic. What I would like to see is not necessarily slang or technical vocabulary, although those would be fun, but rather simple, authentic ways to say things. I want to speak Spanish that doesn't sound like English spoken with Spanish words.
The guidelines for allowing an entry into the phrasebook: I favor short entries with translations and notation about whether they are peninsular or south american Spanish, so I don't try a phrase out on my Mexican friends and get a blank look.
The process of approving entries I favor a usage panel that would include native speakers.
Maybe this is implied in the discussion but I think the various phrases could be posted for discussion, then the final decision made with this input by the More Knowledgable.
I think it is a great idea even if there is only one category: How do I say "I love you."?
Of course, no one will try looking it up a phrase book any more than they search previous posts, flashcards, use the machine translator, etc.
