Learn Spanish: 4.6 -present and past perfect subjunctive-subject change

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I need some help from someone who had done lesson 4.6 of the Learn Spanish series.
I have a question concerning sentence #4 of the Write section and the example sentence from the Speak section.
The Speak section is easier so let me ask my question about that one first.

Tell me what you wish you had done yesterday using "Quise que" and the preterit form of haber plus a past participle. For example:"Quise que hubiera lavado los platos."

This sentence is a little different from the examples given in the video. In the video examples there was a subject change from the Weirdo (main) clause to the subordinate clause containing the perfect subjunctive. I am assuming that the exmple sentence is: I wished that I had washed the dishes.
This lack of subject change threw up a flag for me. I found this online.

**As with expressions of will and influence, the infinitive, not the subjunctive, is used after an expression of emotion when there is no change of subject from the main clause to the subordinate clause. **

Compare these sentences.

**Temo llegar tarde. **
**I'm afraid I'll arrive late. **

** Temo que mi novio llegue tarde.
I'm afraid my boyfriend will arrive late.**

This makes me believe that our English sentence should be rendered as:
Quise haber lavado los platos.

Quise que hubiera lavado los platos would only be correct if the subject of the subordinate clause was other than I (the subject of the main clause).

Is that how you saw it? If not, could I get your explanation? (I sent a note to Paralee, but I know she's busy, so I thought I'd ask my fellow students what they did.)

Similarly, we have question #4 of the Write section.
Me alegro de que (haber) (usar) los tornillos en la terraza.

We aren't give the subject of the subordinate clause. Am I correct in saying that it should be:

Me alegro de haber usado los tornillos en la terraza.
I am happy that I have used screws in the deck. (no subject change).

Me alegro de que hayas/haya/hayamos/hayáis/hayan usado los tornillos en la terraza. if the subject is other than I in the subordinate clause.

How did you write it? Reasoning'

5565 views
updated JUL 18, 2009
posted by 0074b507

7 Answers

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I wouldn't say "quise" neither, but there is nothing wrong grammatically, I guess; just weird.

Unfortunately, the "rules" are more complex than just subject change or match, but as a simple rule, it is the most cost efficient one, I guess.

Typical case:

(Yo) Me alegro de haber comprado (yo) un coche nuevo. (same subjects, compulsory infinitive)
(Yo) Me alegro de que haya comprado (él) un coche nuevo. (different subjects, compulsory subjunctive)

Other cases:

Me alegra poder ayudar (yo). (the subject of the subordinate is the subordinate itself)

(Yo) Le enseñé a hablar (él). (the direct object "le" is the same the subject of the subordinate, "él")

updated JUL 18, 2009
posted by lazarus1907
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I don't think that it's a matter of there having to be a change of subject in the dependent clause in order to use the subjunctive but, rather, that, if there is a change in subject (in addition to the non-declarative nature of the clause) then you must use the subjunctive. If there is no change in subject, then you can use the subjunctive or an alternative construction with the infinitive.

I trust that, together with the previous post/replies, this will provoke a really authoritative explanation from Lazarus.

That sounded pretty authoritative to me. Thank you.

Wrong, though. If the subjects are the same in this kind of sentence, the infinitive is obligatory.

However, I've seen that Paralee has changed the example, now it's about what you wish your carpinter had done yesterday.

I really don't like the "quise que" there, but never mind.

However, Paralee, since I know you're lurking in the shadows, please stop calling the grammatical tenses "tensos". raspberry

updated JUL 17, 2009
posted by Vikingo
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I don't think that it's a matter of there having to be a change of subject in the dependent clause in order to use the subjunctive but, rather, that, if there is a change in subject (in addition to the non-declarative nature of the clause) then you must use the subjunctive. If there is no change in subject, then you can use the subjunctive or an alternative construction with the infinitive.

I trust that, together with the previous post/replies, this will provoke a really authoritative explanation from Lazarus.

That sounded pretty authoritative to me. Thank you.

updated JUL 16, 2009
posted by 0074b507
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Both of your suggestions are correct. What exactly did Paralee ask for? different subject?

Judging from her previous examples that all contained a subject change I believe that she just omitted a subject pronoun. As we say here, we learn more from mistakes than correct examples. It caused me to wonder how it is handled if you aren't told the subject of the subordinate clause (or if neither the verb ending alone nor context allows you to assume the subject).

Actually my first thought was that she was being devious, throwing in harder example to make you think, but that's my character flaw. I'm sure that there was simply some blunder made here.

I don't think that it's a matter of there having to be a change of subject in the dependent clause in order to use the subjunctive but, rather, that, if there is a change in subject (in addition to the non-declarative nature of the clause) then you must use the subjunctive. If there is no change in subject, then you can use the subjunctive or an alternative construction with the infinitive.

I trust that, together with the previous post/replies, this will provoke a really authoritative explanation from Lazarus.

updated JUL 16, 2009
posted by samdie
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Both of your suggestions are correct. What exactly did Paralee ask for? different subject?

Judging from her previous examples that all contained a subject change I believe that she just omitted a subject pronoun. As we say here, we learn more from mistakes than correct examples. It caused me to wonder how it is handled if you aren't told the subject of the subordinate clause (or if neither the verb ending alone nor context allows you to assume the subject).

Actually my first thought was that she was being devious, throwing in a harder example to make you think, but that's my character flaw. I'm sure that there was simply some blunder made here.

updated JUL 16, 2009
posted by 0074b507
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Similarly, we have question #4 of the Write section.

Me alegro de que (haber) (usar) los tornillos en la terraza.

We aren't give the subject of the subordinate clause. Am I correct in saying that it should be:

Me alegro de haber usado los tornillos en la terraza.

I am happy that I have used screws in the deck. (no subject change).

Me alegro de que hayas/haya/hayamos/hayáis/hayan usado los tornillos en la terraza. if the subject is other than I in the subordinate clause.

How did you write it? Reasoning?

Both of your suggestions are correct. What exactly did Paralee ask for? different subject'

updated JUL 16, 2009
posted by 00494d19
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HI quentin, I had to make a slight change to the title to enable the suscription to this thread. grin

updated JUL 16, 2009
posted by 00494d19