What's up with "lo"
lo invadió la tristeza -> he was overcome by sadness
Why is the "lo" here.
17 Answers
Yes, you are to me too, ¡Muchas gracias Lazarus!
Thanks, Lazarus! That clears up a lot of muddy water that I have been living with for a long time. You are always very helpful.
Could you please expound a little more on where dircect object pronouns [lo(s)/la(s)] are used with verbs in contrast with indirect pronouns [le(s)] (that is, where the pronoun would appear in English to be the direct object and there is no indirect object)?
This is a rather messy area in Spanish, but I can give you some general guidelines:
' Transitive verbs require in general "lo(s)" / "la(s)", so simply check a dictionary (e.g. conocer is transitive)
' With verbs of emotion, when we get affected by the subject of the sentence, but this never intended to do so, normally we use the indirect object (e.g. Me asusta el agua; Me gusta el cine). If the verb is transitive, it is possible to use a direct object, specially if the subject is actively trying to cause an emotion on you.
' Some modern transitive verbs, unfortunately, used to require dative (indirect objects) in Latin, and many areas maintain the indirect object pronouns even though they see them as transitive. They are residues from the past that have been kept alive, and you cannot figure them out logically; they must be memorised.
' Leísmo is pretty common, and only adds confusion, unfortunately. Again, check the dictionary is the best one can do without help.
Some say that verbs that are followed by the pronoun "a" take the indirect object pronoun. But then I find this in a Spanish textbook: "¿Conoces a esta mujer? Sí, la conozco".
"La conozco" is correct. If the direct object is a specific person or personalized animal (or even an object), the preposition is generally compulsory for the direct object. There are other transitive verbs that also require this preposition in the direct object, such as verbs denoting order or hierarchy, such as "preceder" (el uno precede al dos). In other cases it is used or omitted to prevent ambiguities. Too complex to explain in detail here (and you've asked too many questions for a single post).
Upon reading the first couple of paragraphs of RAE's article on leísmo, it appears that any use of le(s) as a direct object pronoun is technically incorrect, although, "debido a su extensión entre hablantes cultos y escritores de prestigio", it has become accepted usage, at least for the masculine singular.
Correct, although they still try to encourage people to use the proper transitive pronouns here.
Now, regarding the issue of "lo/le", with verbs of emotion, if the subject is inanimate or not an active agent, "le" is the most common option if this appears after the verb:
Le asustó el ruido
However, if the subject (el ruido) precedes the verb, "lo" is more likely to be used ("le" is used here as well):
El ruido lo asustó
In Argentina, it appears that they prefer "lo" in either case; in other countries, "le" is more common.
For animate subjects, direct objects are generally used, but indirect objects are also possible if the subject is not regarded as an active agent:
Jose la asustó (on purpose)
Jose le asustó (he didn't do anything: it was just her getting scared)
I would have said "Le invadió la tristeza", personally.
Thank you for addressing this, Lazarus. I had intended last night to post a request for you (or some other knowledgeable person) to do so, but time got away from me.
Could you please expound a little more on where dircect object pronouns [lo(s)/la(s)] are used with verbs in contrast with indirect pronouns [le(s)] (that is, where the pronoun would appear in English to be the direct object and there is no indirect object)? (We know that the first and second person pronouns are the same whether they are treated as direct objects or indirect objects [me, nos, te, os].) I have wondered about this since I began learning Spanish, and have yet to get a definitive answer from any Spanish speakers, native or otherwise.
Some have said that directs are used with some verbs, while indirects are used with others; you just have to learn/memorize which are which.
Some say that verbs that are followed by the pronoun "a" take the indirect object pronoun. But then I find this in a Spanish textbook: "¿Conoces a esta mujer? Sí, la conozco".
Upon reading the first couple of paragraphs of RAE's article on leísmo, it appears that any use of le(s) as a direct object pronoun is technically incorrect, although, "debido a su extensión entre hablantes cultos y escritores de prestigio", it has become accepted usage, at least for the masculine singular.
Until now, I have just been using what "sounds" correct to my non-native Spanish ear, based on what I have heard through the years; of course, this means that I have been making the same errors as the people that I have been listening to.
Please help dispel the darkness.
I'm not sure why t uses that, it's time for me to learn "lo" though
Does the position of the subject before or after the verb have any bearing on whether the sentence is translated passively or actively?
No. They are exactly the same.
Sadness overcame him .vs. He was overcome by sadness.
(Why is this sentence translated passively')
You are making it passive because in English if you change the order of the words, you change the meaning, so in order to maintain the same meaning, you are forced to re-phrase it using a different structure (passive in this case).
He overcame sadness.
Sadness overcame him.
See? Different order, different meaning. In Spanish order is not so important.
The guy who answered my question on wordreference.com said using le is only used in some parts of Spain. So would it be alright to ignore that le/lo thing?
In the sentence in question, "le" is the most common option, according to my sources and the corpus.
The guy who answered my question on wordreference.com said using le is only used in some parts of Spain. So would it be alright to ignore that le/lo thing'
'La tristeza? is NOT the direct object, but the subject of the sentence! Don't forget that Spanish is very flexible about the position of the parts of the sentence.
Does the position of the subject before or after the verb have any bearing on whether the sentence is translated passively or actively?
Sadness overcame him .vs. He was overcome by sadness.
(Why is this sentence translated passively')
http://www.spanishdict.com/reference/grammar/articles-neuter
I think your answer is here.
I don't think so. That "lo" is an object pronoun, not a neutral article.
Actually now that I think about it, it should still be written as La tristeza le invadió instead of La tristeza lo invadió. Since the sadness is the direct object.
"La tristeza" is NOT the direct object, but the subject of the sentence! Don't forget that Spanish is very flexible about the position of the parts of the sentence.
Now, regarding the issue of "lo/le", with verbs of emotion, if the subject is inanimate or not an active agent, "le" is the most common option if this appears after the verb:
Le asustó el ruido
However, if the subject (el ruido) precedes the verb, "lo" is more likely to be used ("le" is used here as well):
El ruido lo asustó
In Argentina, it appears that they prefer "lo" in either case; in other countries, "le" is more common.
For animate subjects, direct objects are generally used, but indirect objects are also possible if the subject is not regarded as an active agent:
Jose la asustó (on purpose)
Jose le asustó (he didn't do anything: it was just her getting scared)
I would have said "Le invadió la tristeza", personally.
Nevermind. I get it now. Invadió is conjugated for the sadness not him.
La tristeza lo invadió. = Lo invadió la tristeza
Got my answer. Here it is in case any one was wondering:
http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php't=1454335
read this after viewing the thread
Actually now that I think about it, it should still be written as La tristeza le invadió instead of La tristeza lo invadió. Since the sadness is the direct object.
Hey, you're right. I would run this by Lazarus and, if he agrees, report it to the Administrators to correct.
I just looked up "invadir" in my Harrap's bilingual dictionary and it gives the same sentence example, but with "le." "Le invadió la tristeza. - He was overcome by sadness."
Pablo i don't get your example. In your example it seems as if lo/la should be le. La is a direct object pronoun and lo is aswell but it can be used as a neuter article however it's not being used as a neuter article in your example.
The addiction(lo) killed him/her(le)
Another phrase using 'lo' and 'la' to clarify:
"Su adicción a las drogas lo mató" (a él) or "Su adicción a las drogas la mató" (a ella).
"His adiction to drugs kill him" or "Her adiction to drugs kill her".
Weigh your question against this page in the SpanishDict.com Reference Section (Tab):
http://www.spanishdict.com/reference/grammar/articles-neuter
I think your answer is here.
