HomeQ&AEl uso de 'y' y 'e'

El uso de 'y' y 'e'

0
votes

Hola,

Espero que hay un hispanohablante quien puede ayudarme con este pregunta.

Yo he olvidado porque en algunas ocasiones, se utiliza 'y' y en otras ocasiones se utiliza 'e'. Porque es eso?

Elle
:o)

29778 views
updated ABR 24, 2009
posted by Elle

34 Answers

0
votes

I did not say it is imposible, I said it is casi imposible, not the same thing. wink

And if you think, James, you can beat a woman on having the last word, keep it coming and keep dreaming.... tongue wink

updated ABR 24, 2009
posted by 00494d19
0
votes

that "y hijos" cannot be pronounced. Of course it can be pronounced.

As nobody said this I wonder what exactly you are taking issue with.

Really? See post #14 of this thread, which I paste below for your convenience. It sure looks to me like you are saying this.

Vikingo wrote:

Ahora sí que estoy un poco confundido. ¿No se dice 'padres e hijos', por ejemplo? Confieso que no lo sé, ¿aunque creo que sí? ¿Qué dicen los demás hispanohablantes?

No es que sea correcto simplemente sino que es casi imposible pronunciarlo con la y, precisamente para evitar la cacofonía se sustituye la y por la e.

Satélite, a ver cómo pretendes pronunciar lo que ha puesto Vikingo con la y:

y hijos'

updated ABR 23, 2009
posted by 00bacfba
0
votes

I am very clever because I have excellent teachers, like Lazarus, Jame, Quentin and yourself, Heidi.

jajaja raspberry

Marco

No solo muy listo sino también siempre muy amable, Marco smile

Es bueno verte por aquí smile

updated ABR 23, 2009
posted by 00494d19
0
votes

jeje, very clever, Marco tongue wink

I am very clever because I have excellent teachers, like Lazarus, Jame, Quentin and yourself, Heidi.

jajaja raspberry

Marco

updated ABR 23, 2009
posted by Marco-T
0
votes

People could pronounce** "a" as "ei"** so it is possible to pronounce "a artist".

This is an interesting topic. smile

Marco

jeje, very clever, Marco tongue wink

updated ABR 22, 2009
posted by 00494d19
0
votes

that "y hijos" cannot be pronounced. Of course it can be pronounced.

As nobody said this I wonder what exactly you are taking issue with.

Go tell someone that pronouncing 'a artist? is impossible.

Of course it is possible, but I think not even uneducated people would say that....

You live in England , you will know more about that.

Heidi, I understand why you said it's possible to pronounce "a artist".

People could pronounce "a" as "ei" so it is possible to pronounce "a artist".

This is an interesting topic. smile

Marco

updated ABR 22, 2009
posted by Marco-T
0
votes

Ahora sí que estoy un poco confundido. ¿No se dice "padres e hijos", por ejemplo? Confieso que no lo sé, ¿aunque creo que sí? ¿Qué dicen los demás hispanohablantes?

No es que sea correcto simplemente sino que es casi imposible pronunciarlo con la y, precisamente para evitar la cacofonía se sustituye la y por la e.

Satélite, a ver cómo pretendes pronunciar lo que ha puesto Vikingo con la y:

y hijos'

updated ABR 22, 2009
posted by 00494d19
0
votes

that "y hijos" cannot be pronounced. Of course it can be pronounced.
As nobody said this I wonder what exactly you are taking issue with.

Go tell someone that pronouncing 'a artist? is impossible.

Of course it is possible, but I think not even uneducated people would say that....
You live in England , you will know more about that.

updated ABR 22, 2009
posted by 00494d19
0
votes

Exactly. The change from "a" to "an" in English is pretty much for the same reasons why we change "y" and "o". Go tell someone that pronouncing "a artist" is impossible.

updated ABR 20, 2009
posted by lazarus1907
0
votes

Yes, I understand and agree with (and was already aware of) all you say. I was only taking issue with the statement (not by you) that "y hijos" cannot be pronounced. Of course it can be pronounced. It just takes more time, which is why the rule was made to change the letter. The same exact thing applies to "a udder" (una ubre); it certainly can be pronounced, but if you say it quickly, the article disappears, which is why we say "an udder."

As you say, the answer to why only y and o are subject to this rule is that those words are too important to be omitted, so we change them to make them more audible. But if we weren't in a hurry, we could pronounce the y and o without much difficulty.

updated ABR 20, 2009
posted by 00bacfba
0
votes

Yes, and why should y and o be so hard to pronounce when doubled, even though the other vowels pose no such problem?

Está andando

Una noche excelente

Espíritu único

It's fine that Spanish has these rules, because they make the language sound better and/or easier to pronounce for native speakers (just as the a/an rule serves for English speakers), but it seems odd to say that "y hijos" cannot be pronounced.

James, in those examples there is a marked tendency in the speech to fuse both vowels into a single one, even in correct Spanish, so we pronounce "Es-tán-dan-do" and "no-chex-ce-len-te". Only when we pronounce emphatically, artificially, or extremely slow and clear, we make both identical vowels equally long.

The reason for the change is not just avoid an "impossible" phonetic combination, but the fact that we naturally fuse identical vowels, and while fusing both "a" in "está-abierto" is not going to prevent anyone from understanding it clearly, in cases like "Carmen y Inés", this natural fusion could make it sound as "Carmen Inés", making people believe that "Inés" is "Carmen's" surname, instead of another person. To prevent this, either we pronounce the "i" twice, which slows us down and forces us to pronounce against our natural tendency, or we change it for an "e", which allows a much more fluent synalepha (elision of two syllables into one through vowel contact), while producing a clear sentence.

updated ABR 20, 2009
posted by lazarus1907
0
votes

' when the letter "i" forms a diphthong, as its pronunciation becomes /j/ (a semi-consonant), as Satélite mentioned before: "Acero y hierro" is the correct option.

Thanks Lazarus, I knew that words that started with hi usually are preceded with e rather than y, but I was not aware of how a diphthong would change that rule. I was just blanking out when thinking of an example to show that if a word starts with hi (without a diphthong) that you would use e instead of y.

updated ABR 20, 2009
posted by Nathaniel
0
votes

Sí, Heidita, "y hijos" =)

Yes, and why should y and o be so hard to pronounce when doubled, even though the other vowels pose no such problem?

Está andando
Una noche excelente
Espíritu único

It's fine that Spanish has these rules, because they make the language sound better and/or easier to pronounce for native speakers (just as the a/an rule serves for English speakers), but it seems odd to say that "y hijos" cannot be pronounced.

updated ABR 20, 2009
posted by 00bacfba
0
votes

I just thought of the word moho (mold), which has a double O sound. That word presents no problem of pronunciation, so neither should "uno o otro."

Again, I'm not saying that the rules for y and o don't make sense (they do), but that it is possible to break those rules without injuring your tongue.

updated ABR 20, 2009
posted by 00bacfba
0
votes

Thanks Lazarus! I finally looked it up in B&B, and they're saying the same. They also state that "substitution of e for y is not always made in spontaneous speech".

True. Many people say "y" before they have spent enough milliseconds to consider beforehand the word that follows, and once the mistake is made, they go on talking, because it can happen to anyone.

Eso es verdad, cuando hablas igual te olvidas de que hay que hacer ese cambio y simplemente no lo haces.

Sí, Heidita, "y hijos" =)

updated ABR 20, 2009
posted by Satlite
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