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No se olvide de su paraguas

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Why is 'No se olvide de su paraguas' reflexive? It can't be 'No olvide de su paraguas''

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updated MAY 7, 2009
posted by Erin

10 Answers

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Gracias por las bienvenidas!

La pronunnciación la tengo claro. Pero si recuerdo mi colegio de tiempos atrás, entonces recuerdo que a,o,u son vocales fuertes y que cada una forma una sílaba separada. Mientras e,i son vocales débiles, en los cuales hay que poner un acento si la émfasis está en una de ellas. Esto realmente me tiene confusa en el momento!!!

updated MAY 7, 2009
posted by biba
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Me gustará saber por qué veo "paraguas" sin acento en la 2nda "a"? Pensaba que la pronunciación entonces sería "paragúas" en vez de paráguas....

Hola biba: Bienvenida al foro smile

La parte "guas" es una sola sílaba. Si lo pronuncias con dos sílabas cometes un error. Mira la pronunciación en este lugar.

paraguas

updated MAY 7, 2009
posted by 00494d19
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Me gustará saber por qué veo "paraguas" sin acento en la 2nda "a"? Pensaba que la pronunciación entonces sería "paragúas" en vez de paráguas....

updated MAY 7, 2009
posted by biba
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Just to add to Lazarus's reply, there are actually three basic ways to say this.

Olvidé mi paraguas
Me olvidé de mi paraguas
Se me olvidó mi paraguas

Note that in the third one, the verb conjugation changes to agree with the object (which in this sentence actually becomes the subject), rather than the person who forgot. This stresses that the action was an accident. Also note that the "mi" in each of the above three can be replaced by "el," which is contrary to usual practice in English. Using the possessive pronoun stresses that it is "MY" umbrella and nobody else's.

Also, olvidarse de is commonly used for the construction "forget to do (something)," where the "do" can be any verb.

updated MAR 31, 2009
posted by 00bacfba
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Hard to explain, and harder to understand if you call it reflexive, because when people see the word reflexive, they rightfully think of something that you do to yourself; according to this definition, this is not reflexive at all.

As a matter of fact, I'd say that there are no reflexive verbs. With many transitive verbs, you can use the direct object to refer other things or people (e.g. Lavo a mi niño / Lo lavo), or you can use it to refer to yourself (e.g. Me lavo). When the subject and the object are the same, the object becomes reflexive, but there is nothing reflexive per se about the verb; only the way you are using the reflexive pronouns with it. On the other hand, there are other types of verbs, which our grammars call pronominal, where the reflexive pronoun is essentially part of the verb, and it doesn't mean "to myself" or anything like that. These verbs are different, because the pronoun cannot be omitted nor replaced, and because their meaning is often different from their non-pronominal counterparts (when they have one). "Olvidarse" is a pronominal form of "olvidar", and unlike "olvidar", which is transitive and it uses a direct object (e.g. Olvidé el paraguas), the pronominal form is intransitive (all true pronominal verbs are), so it cannot accept a direct object, and it demands the use of the preposition "de" all the time.

So, why a "se"? Well, this "se" deviates the focus of the action somehow to the person who forgets, suggesting that the act of forgetting is not something that you do voluntarily (e.g. I've decided to forget my umbrella), but something that happens to you. In a way, it makes it sound more like an accident or something that affects you too; it makes the person sound less guilty. If you drop the pronoun, you cannot use "de", and if you use "de", you must use the pronoun. They go hand in hand.

"Olvidar" is a very special verb, as it can be constructed in four different ways, allowing a wide gradation of subtle hints of guilt or innocence in your speech.

Lazarus, your reply is very clear and it's easier to understand this question which is pretty hard to understand for many English speakers.

Muchas gracias, mi maestro.

Marco

updated MAR 31, 2009
posted by Marco-T
0
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Hard to explain, and harder to understand if you call it reflexive, because when people see the word reflexive, they rightfully think of something that you do to yourself; according to this definition, this is not reflexive at all.

As a matter of fact, I'd say that there are no reflexive verbs. With many transitive verbs, you can use the direct object to refer other things or people (e.g. Lavo a mi niño / Lo lavo), or you can use it to refer to yourself (e.g. Me lavo). When the subject and the object are the same, the object becomes reflexive, but there is nothing reflexive per se about the verb; only the way you are using the reflexive pronouns with it. On the other hand, there are other types of verbs, which our grammars call pronominal, where the reflexive pronoun is essentially part of the verb, and it doesn't mean "to myself" or anything like that. These verbs are different, because the pronoun cannot be omitted nor replaced, and because their meaning is often different from their non-pronominal counterparts (when they have one). "Olvidarse" is a pronominal form of "olvidar", and unlike "olvidar", which is transitive and it uses a direct object (e.g. Olvidé el paraguas), the pronominal form is intransitive (all true pronominal verbs are), so it cannot accept a direct object, and it demands the use of the preposition "de" all the time.

So, why a "se"? Well, this "se" deviates the focus of the action somehow to the person who forgets, suggesting that the act of forgetting is not something that you do voluntarily (e.g. I've decided to forget my umbrella), but something that happens to you. In a way, it makes it sound more like an accident or something that affects you too; it makes the person sound less guilty. If you drop the pronoun, you cannot use "de", and if you use "de", you must use the pronoun. They go hand in hand.

"Olvidar" is a very special verb, as it can be constructed in four different ways, allowing a wide gradation of subtle hints of guilt or innocence in your speech.

updated MAR 1, 2009
posted by lazarus1907
0
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like Juan just explained, "No olvide su paraguas" is ambiguous because it's not clear who is forgetting....

here are some examples of command forms with subjuntive

No te toques
No te faltes

Erin said:

It was from my textbook and I believe it's a negative formal command. I just didn't understand why it would be reflexive. Guess it's just one of those things that is difficult for English speakers to understand about Spanish.

casper said:

if you look up the dictionary, it has olvidarse form, it's best to listen to your dictionary if you insists on using this, No olvide de su paraguas

I suggest to change it to a command form

No olvida de su paraguas

hope other will correct me if i am wrong

>

updated MAR 1, 2009
posted by casper
0
votes

It was from my textbook and I believe it's a negative formal command. I just didn't understand why it would be reflexive. Guess it's just one of those things that is difficult for English speakers to understand about Spanish.

casper said:

if you look up the dictionary, it has olvidarse form, it's best to listen to your dictionary

if you insists on using this,

No olvide de su paraguas

I suggest to change it to a command form

No olvida de su paraguas

hope other will correct me if i am wrong

>

updated MAR 1, 2009
posted by Erin
0
votes

"No se olvide de su paraguas". Se utiliza la forma reflexiva por que el paraguas es de la misma persona que lo olvida.
También se puede decir " No olvide su paraguas", pero es más ambiguo, no está claro si el paraguas es de quien lo olvida o de una tercera persona.

"No olvide de su paraguas" es incorrecto.

updated MAR 1, 2009
posted by juan9
0
votes

if you look up the dictionary, it has olvidarse form, it's best to listen to your dictionary

if you insists on using this,
No olvide de su paraguas

I suggest to change it to a command form
No olvida de su paraguas

hope other will correct me if i am wrong

updated MAR 1, 2009
posted by casper
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