empatar

# empatar

0

I am not following the logic of:

Han empatado a 7. - The tied seven to seven.

Wouldn't "Han" relate to (haber) have? They have tied seven to seven (and might do so again).

3169 views
updated FEB 15, 2009
posted by Dave-Miller

0

Que bueno, es mas logico.......

updated FEB 15, 2009
posted by Dave-Miller
0

Cuando se habla de un empate que ya pasó:
Empataron a siete
Quedaron siete a siete
Terminaron siete a siete

De un empate, cuya acción aún no termina:
Siguen siete a siete
Continúan siete a siete

Cuando se narra un empate que ya pasó, se dice:

James Santiago said:

"We were tied seven-to-seven"Estábamos empatados a siete"We are tied seven-to-seven"Estamos empatados a siete"We have been tied seven-to-seven" indicates that this type of incidence has occurred on several or repeated occasions.Yes, but this sentence seems contrived to me, and it is difficult to imagine scenarios in which it would be used. That said:Hemos empatado a sieteHowever, in Spanish this tense is often used where we would use the simple past, so "Hemos empatado a siete" could also mean "We tied at seven." Only context can make clear which meaning is intended.My next concern is the "seven-to-seven" part. While a literal translation would be "siete a siete", this is not the case.In English, we can say either "We tied at seven" or "We tied seven to seven." There is no difference in meaning. And while I suppose it is possible to say "siete a siete" in Spanish, I don't think it is said that way very often.

>

updated FEB 14, 2009
posted by Maria-de-los-Angeles
0

Good points, samdie. Your example of "We have been tied seven-to-seven for the last twenty minutes" would be "Hemos estado empatados a siete durante los últimos veinte minutos." That would eliminate the ambiguity that I mentioned above.

Also, thanks James for the translation, Janice for getting me thinking and Lazarus for getting this processed!

I forgot the reference to time or quantity. ALSO: We have been tied seven-to-seven twice this season. (or once before ) or since...

My students mentioned: 'Ambos la siete' and one mentioned 'cada una siete' as an informal way.

My current ESL students are from El Salvador, Honduras, Costa Rica, Guatemala and the Dominican Republic The one who doesn't like futbol is willing to go for the language part! In the past, some of my students from Mexico seemed to speak a more Americanized form of grammar for obvious proximity and history.

So as language flourishes, so does it change.

Thanks all who added to this thread. Gracias a todo y sigue explicar (con este tipo de entender).

updated FEB 13, 2009
posted by Dave-Miller
0

Good points, samdie. Your example of "We have been tied seven-to-seven for the last twenty minutes" would be "Hemos estado empatados a siete durante los últimos veinte minutos." That would eliminate the ambiguity that I mentioned above.

Incidentally, the verb empatar comes from the Italian impattare, which is related to parità, meaning parity or equality. I used to think the Spanish was somehow related to the noun pata, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

updated FEB 12, 2009
posted by 00bacfba
0

Dave Miller said:

"We have been tied seven-to-seven" indicates that this type of incidence has occurred on several or repeated occasions.
This strikes me as a very strange sentence in English. I would find it less strange (normal, even) if you were to add (something like) "for the last twenty minutes." to your "sentence". However, if (as seems to be the case) you intend by your reference to repeated occasions (and, since that cannot very well happen in a single game), "I would say that the normal expression would be "We have tied them (or they, us) 7-to-7 int the last five games (or four times this season, or whatever).

The main problem is your use of "been" in this sentence. It's true that, if I were to say "I've been to San Francisco dozens of times.", I'm talking about repeated occurrences (but that's a somewhat idiomatic use of "been"). Even, were you to add something like "many times" to your sentence, I be inclined to interpret that as a statement not about the final scores in earlier games but, rather, some intermediate/temporary tied-score that has occurred in the past. e.g. "We've been tied seven-to-seven in four out of six of the last games but we went on to win in all but one of them." (or some such).

updated FEB 12, 2009
posted by samdie
0

"We were tied seven-to-seven"

"We are tied seven-to-seven"

"We have been tied seven-to-seven" indicates that this type of incidence has occurred on several or repeated occasions.
Yes, but this sentence seems contrived to me, and it is difficult to imagine scenarios in which it would be used. That said:

However, in Spanish this tense is often used where we would use the simple past, so "Hemos empatado a siete" could also mean "We tied at seven." Only context can make clear which meaning is intended.

My next concern is the "seven-to-seven" part. While a literal translation would be "siete a siete", this is not the case.

In English, we can say either "We tied at seven" or "We tied seven to seven." There is no difference in meaning. And while I suppose it is possible to say "siete a siete" in Spanish, I don't think it is said that way very often.

updated FEB 12, 2009
posted by 00bacfba
0

Let's try some examples with a time reference and see what explanations follow...

In American English, we more often default to the simple past so:

"We were tied seven-to-seven" means that the score at some point changed within the same game.

In British or formal English, "We had been tied seven-to-seven" more clearly delineates an ongoing score that certainly changed.

"We are tied seven-to-seven" covers a present score (that could change at any moment).

"We have been tied seven-to-seven" indicates that this type of incidence has occurred on several or repeated occasions.

I would love to see these accurately translated to use for my ESL class.

My next concern is the "seven-to-seven" part. While a literal translation would be "siete a siete", this is not the case. I can understand "the score is tied seven each" but "un al otro" isn't riight nor is "siete cada una" Here I am thinking we know each other as in "one to the other" Spanish or "one another" or "each other" English.

Similarly, both or "ambos", "We were tied". "We both had/have the same score" or "We each have seven goals (metas)".

I'll stop at this point and wait for some response(s). THANKS OUT THERE!

Dave

updated FEB 12, 2009
posted by Dave-Miller
0

Dave, is this what you did not understand: "Estubieron empatado siete a siete hasta la meta"
Wouldn't that just be the same as in English: "They were tied seven-to-seven for the first half of the game"? Isn't "empatado" just a participle here...not conjugated, the verb being conjugated is "estar". Or?

Dave Miller said:

Empatieron siete lo mismo? siete un al otro'They tied seven to seven and this fact is complete and cannot be changed but it is a series of activities that will ongo'This verb form I do not fully understand.Estubieron empatado siete a siete hasta la metaAyudame(nos) por favor.Thanks, DaveThanks for your service. I teach ESL to the local Latino population and as a result, I am sincerely improving my SpanishAlso, please correct "the" to "they" as in "They" tied seven-to-seven. I believe the hyphens are also necessary even by current standards.

>

updated FEB 7, 2009
posted by Janice
0

Let me try...because I, like Lazarus, was not exactly sure what you meant when I read your posts. But I also have had to learn what Lazarus explained with the words I put in bold quoting him here: "Basically, the score was 7-7, which is a tie, and present perfect (han empatado) is used because it is a past action which has finished within a time frame which we regard as current / present.

In English - as (maybe) opposed to Spanish - we would most likely say that "they are tied" (in the present) so long as the game is still in progress. But we might say: "They have tied us up till now!" Or we might exclaim: "Oh, my goodness, the opposing team has tied us with that last score."

And even after the game, if the team has tied our team numerous times in the past, we would express that in English as "They have tied us many times." We could even extend the sentence with "...and have just tied us again tonight."

I guess that in all these cases one would use the perfect in Spanish (¿present perfect') if, in the last case I described in English above, -- the case in which the two teams have tied many times before, -- the Spanish-speaker would instead use a different tense. Is that right? Did I understand the question?

Unfortunately I don't know the answer.....

updated FEB 7, 2009
posted by Janice
0

I am trying to differentiate between brushing your teeth (daily), or closing a door (whenever but often) versus winning a game (complete) and having a tie score in the middle of the game (ongoing and yet not complete).

Thanks much,

Dave

updated FEB 7, 2009
posted by Dave-Miller
0

I don't understand what you mean by series of activities and all that; you must be using a criterion for the use of the tenses that I am not familiar with. Basically, the score was 7-7, which is a tie, and present perfect (han empatado) is used because it is a past action which has finished within a time frame which we regard as current / present.

"Estuvieron empatados" would mean that they were tied for some time in the past, but not any more.

updated FEB 7, 2009
posted by lazarus1907
0

So if the game were ongoing:

They are or were tied - this could change

If the game finished that won't change

When I teach ESL I use a timeline to explain where the event occurs(ed) and where we are now explaining the past. Haber is present perfect and I am learning past perfect.

Hemos empatado a siete hasta el ultimo momento/meta. Is this correct?
Is it in error to say "Hemos empatado siete a siete"

It seems that empatar is a verb far different from comer yet both actions continue.
How about cerar o apagar? both one time yet repeated actions como dormiendo'

updated FEB 7, 2009
posted by Dave-Miller
0

Empatieron siete lo mismo? siete un al otro?

They tied seven to seven and this fact is complete and cannot be changed but it is a series of activities that will ongo?

This verb form I do not fully understand.

Estubieron empatado siete a siete hasta la meta

Ayudame(nos) por favor.

Thanks, Dave

Thanks for your service. I teach ESL to the local Latino population and as a result, I am sincerely improving my Spanish

Also, please correct "the" to "they" as in "They" tied seven-to-seven. I believe the hyphens are also necessary even by current standards.

updated FEB 7, 2009
posted by Dave-Miller
0