Another verb for hundirse
What is a verb that could replace hundirse in the following sentence.
Por poco se hunde el barco.
13 Answers
Now I don't feel so stupid!
Thanks to all who replied.
Samdie, I am about to do that search! My in-many-ways-excellent Barron's pocket grammar book is one that calls all of the se verbs reflexive, and it is one of the few things I've found highly confusing in transferring the rules to real life. Grac'....
samdie said:
MJ said:
AT LAST I understand why "se" keeps popping up in what have been the most unexpected places! Thanks, Lazarus!
You'll no doubt be happy to know that there a bunch of other cases is which 'se' crops up that are also not 'reflexive' and which Lazarus did not mention (since they weren't directly relevant to the topic). There are some schools of thought (and outdated textbooks) that label all of them 'reflexive' (which has the advantage of simplifying the terminology but the disadvantage of doing violence to the traditional meaning of 'reflexive'). If you wish to pursue the topic, you can try searching the forum for threads containing the word 'pronominal' (that won't get you all of them but will get many of them).
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MJ said:
AT LAST I understand why "se" keeps popping up in what have been the most unexpected places! Thanks, Lazarus!
You'll no doubt be happy to know that there a bunch of other cases is which 'se' crops up that are also not 'reflexive' and which Lazarus did not mention (since they weren't directly relevant to the topic). There are some schools of thought (and outdated textbooks) that label all of them 'reflexive' (which has the advantage of simplifying the terminology but the disadvantage of doing violence to the traditional meaning of 'reflexive'). If you wish to pursue the topic, you can try searching the forum for threads containing the word 'pronominal' (that won't get you all of them but will get many of them).
AT LAST I understand why "se" keeps popping up in what have been the most unexpected places! Thanks, Lazarus!
lazarus1907 said:
... Hundirse is its pronominal counterpart, and the "se" indicates that no one is sinking anything, but something is just sinking, i.e. it is intransitive, [i.e., the action of the verb does not "transition" onto any other object ~mj], and it cannot take an indirect object.
There are countless verbs like this: e.g. quemar(se), romper(se),... This kind of "se" is often called "intransitivizer se"
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Look at these pairs of transitive and intransitive examples with the same verb (direct objects underlined):
Juan rayó las gafas = Juan scratch the glasses
Las gafas se rayaron = The glasses got scrathed
Luis rompió el jarrón = Luis broke the jar.
El jarrón se rompió = The jar broke.
María ensució el cuarto = María made the room dirty.
El cuarto se ensució = The room got dirty.
Being transitive or intransitive has no relationship with the conjugation. Probably most verbs are transitive.
You can conjugate both types in any of the 16 tenses, for each of their 6 forms (I, you, he, we, you guys, they).
Check any good online dictionary, type a English verb, and check when is it transitive, and when is it intransitive. For example,
run (=move very fast) is intransitive, because you don't need an object. You just run, not run your feet.
run (= operate) can be both transitive and intransitive. "The machine is running" is intransitive, because the machine is not running anything, but in "I run the machines" it is transitive, because I do something to something else (the object).
Dictionaries use tr. and intr.
Ah....La casa se quemo (accent over the o).
The house got burnt......not the house burnt itself.
Can transitive verbs be conjugated into all subjects? IE: yo, tu, el..etc'
Sure.
Un submarino puede hundir un barco con un torpedo = A submarine can sink a boat with a torpedo
The subject is the main actor: the submarine, and the object is what the subject sinks: the boat. This is a transitive construction, where the subject does something to an object.
El submarino se hundió = The submarine sunk.
Here the subject is not sinking other boats (the object), but simply sinking - it receives the action of the verb, instead of doing it to an object. This is an intransitive construction, and in Spanish requires this "se" for this verb.
Example with "quemar":
El pirómano quemó la casa = The pyromanic burnt the house (transitive: pyromaniac --> house)
Now an incorrect sentence:
La casa quemó = The house burnt.... (something)
The above sentence requires something for the house to burn, since "quemar" is transitive, so the house must be doing something to another object - the house must be burning something. We'd be talking about a pyromaniac house! The correct version:
La casa se quemó = The house burnt / got burnt.
The fault is in my lack of education.
I do not remember learning about intransitive and transitive verbs.
When I see "se" on the end of an infinitive I automatically think that the verb is reflexive.
Therefore, I translated se hunde as the ship is sinking itself.
Your explanations are great.
Can you give me an example of using the transitive verb hundir with a direct object?
Perhaps that will help my flea bitten brain.
What part of my explanation above did you not understand? I'm curious.
The sentence is correct, and it is not a reflexive verb. The boat is not sinking yourself - it is just sinking. If you say "El barco hunde", you are using a transitive verb, and you need a direct object, you need to specify what other boat is this boat sinking (maybe with cannons), and since it is not sinking anything (and of course, not itself), you cannot say "El barco hunde". To say it is simply sinking, and not sinking something else, you must make it intransitive with this "se", which is not reflexive, but attached to the verb forming a single unit with its own meaning. Thus, the verb becomes "hundirse", which is the (intransitive) pronominal counterpart for "hundir". This pronominal form doesn't accept direct objects, because it is the subject who experiences the action of the verb, rather than other objects.
Is this sentence grammatically correct? Por pco se hunde el barco.
Is hundirse considered a reflexive verb'
Hundir means to sink (something), and there must be something to be sunk by someone or something. In other words, it is transitive, and it demands a direct object.
Hundirse is its pronominal counterpart, and the "se" indicates that no one is sinking anything, but something is just sinking, i.e. it is intransitive, and it cannot take an indirect object.
There are countless verbs like this: e.g. quemar(se), romper(se),... This kind of "se" is often called "intransitivizer se"
Tal vez "se sumergió".
Will K
