Preterite tense of ayudar and andar regarding accents

Question

For preterite tense, ayudar uses an accent on first and third person singular but andar does not. Do you just memorize exceptions to the rule for AR verbs or?
Thanks,
Joe

Answer 1

Kameron said:

as a mental rule, i like to remember that all of the irregular preterit verbs lack accents

I'm afraid not. All these forms are preterite, irregular, and with accent:

durmió
sintió
pidió
siguió
mintió
murió

Answer 2

Thank you Lazarus, I appreciate your information and I have read many of your posts. Accents have generally been troublesome for me because we don't have them in English (although it would be helpful). I understand your message and will try to approach the verbs from that standpoint. There are other accented words that, for me, seem to cloud the issue. Words such as más/mas, sí/si that don't appear to be assigned for grammatical purpose. I am very new to Spanish, as you can see, and it seems to be an uphill climb at times.
Thanks again for your response.

lazarus1907 said:

Those preterites you are talking about are called strong, because the stress is on the root of the verb, instead of on the desinence.All these have the stress on the root, and therefore, no written accent:[-ducir] aducir, autoinducir, conducir, coproducir, deducir, educir, inducir, introducir, producir, reconducir, reducir, reproducir, retraducir, seducir, traducirandar, desandarcaberdecir, bendecir, condecir, contradecir, desdecir, entredecir, interdecir, maldecir, predecir, redecirestarhaberhacer, desfacer, deshacer, satisfacerirpoderponer, anteponer, aponer, componer, contraponer, deponer, descomponer, desimponer, disponer, exponer, imponer, indisponer, interponer, oponer, posponer, predisponer, preponer, presuponer, proponer, recomponer, reponer, sobreponer, superponer, suponer, transponer, trasponer, yuxtaponer,querer, bienquerer, desquerer, malquerersaber, resabersertener, abstenerse, atenerse, contener, detener, entretener, mantener, manutener, obtener, retener, sostenertraer, abstraer, atraer, contraer, desatraer, detraer, distraer, extraer, maltraer, retraer, retrotraer, substraer, sustraervenir, advenir, aprevenir, avenir, contravenir, convenir, desavenir, desconvenir, devenir, disconvenir, intervenir, prevenir, provenir, reconvenir, revenir, sobrevenir, subvenir, supervenirAlso, monosyllabic words don't have accent, and therefore, monosyllabic verbs don't have it either, according to the general rules of accentuation:ciar, criar, dar, fiar, guiar, liar, miar, piar, puar, ruar, triar, ver

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Answer 3

Thank you again Kameron, I have noticed some of the similarities you mentioned. There is just an awful lot here to assimilate. I have added this information to my notebook so I can research these terms.
Thanks so much.

Kameron said:

by the way, most of the "irregular" verbs are somewhat regular amongst themselves:andar, estar, and tener have similar conjugations (using V)conducir, traer, decir use jdar and ver have a system using a stem with isomewhat similar:poner, poder, querer, saber, venirhacer could be in this group based on sound, but it has an orthographic change (C-> Z) when hizo wouldn't sound right as hico.c and z are related in some way i haven't quite figured out how to say in words. ze and zi are illegal letter combinations, so the plural of lapíz is lapices (lapices doesn't have an accent because the spoken accent is now in the "expected" place)

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Answer 4

Those preterites you are talking about are called strong, because the stress is on the root of the verb, instead of on the desinence.

All these have the stress on the root, and therefore, no written accent:

[-ducir] aducir, autoinducir, conducir, coproducir, deducir, educir, inducir, introducir, producir, reconducir, reducir, reproducir, retraducir, seducir, traducir
andar, desandar
caber
decir, bendecir, condecir, contradecir, desdecir, entredecir, interdecir, maldecir, predecir, redecir
estar
haber
hacer, desfacer, deshacer, satisfacer
ir
poder
poner, anteponer, aponer, componer, contraponer, deponer, descomponer, desimponer, disponer, exponer, imponer, indisponer, interponer, oponer, posponer, predisponer, preponer, presuponer, proponer, recomponer, reponer, sobreponer, superponer, suponer, transponer, trasponer, yuxtaponer,
querer, bienquerer, desquerer, malquerer
saber, resaber
ser
tener, abstenerse, atenerse, contener, detener, entretener, mantener, manutener, obtener, retener, sostener
traer, abstraer, atraer, contraer, desatraer, detraer, distraer, extraer, maltraer, retraer, retrotraer, substraer, sustraer
venir, advenir, aprevenir, avenir, contravenir, convenir, desavenir, desconvenir, devenir, disconvenir, intervenir, prevenir, provenir, reconvenir, revenir, sobrevenir, subvenir, supervenir

Also, monosyllabic words don't have accent, and therefore, monosyllabic verbs don't have it either, according to the general rules of accentuation:

ciar, criar, dar, fiar, guiar, liar, miar, piar, puar, ruar, triar, ver

Answer 5

Thank you Kameron,
It is so helpful to be able to generalize and categorize large chunks of information. This is excellent. I was not aware of this but I have it in my notebook now. It is another piece of the puzzle for me.
Thanks again for your input,
Joe

Kameron said:

as a mental rule, i like to remember that all of the irregular preterit verbs lack accentshere's a list:AndarConducirDecirEstarHacerPonerPoderQuererSaberTenerTraerVenir

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Answer 6

Mark you have cleared up several months of confusion for me. Also, the site you recommended is excellent and I have that saved as well. Thank you so much for your help.

Mark W said:

I said exception, but that's not really what I meant. I meant that there are rules that allow the accent to be on other than the next to the last syllable. I've included a link to a site that explains this in a strait forward manner. So, no you don't need to memorize exceptions once you understand how to apply the rules.This is a good summary of the accent rules.http://www.intro2spanish.com/pronunciation/acento-reglas.htm

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Answer 7

I said exception, but that's not really what I meant. I meant that there are rules that allow the accent to be on other than the next to the last syllable. I've included a link to a site that explains this in a strait forward manner. So, no you don't need to memorize exceptions once you understand how to apply the rules.

This is a good summary of the accent rules.
http://www.intro2spanish.com/pronunciation/acento-reglas.htm

Answer 8

Thanks Mark, I understand. Do you just memorize the exceptions?

Mark W said:

What you are talking about is not really related to AR verbs. It is related to what syllable is accented in the word. In the 1st person preterite of andar (anduve), the accent is on the second to the last syllable and therefore does not require an accent mark. The 1st person pret. of ayudar (ayudé), requires the accent mark because without it the accent would fall on the second to the last syllable.There are basic accent rules, where in most words the accent falls on the second to the last syllable, and if not, it requires an explicit accent mark. There are of course exceptions.

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Answer 9

What you are talking about is not really related to AR verbs. It is related to what syllable is accented in the word. In the 1st person preterite of andar (anduve), the accent is on the second to the last syllable and therefore does not require an accent mark. The 1st person pret. of ayudar (ayudé), requires the accent mark because without it the accent would fall on the second to the last syllable.

There are basic accent rules, where in most words the accent falls on the second to the last syllable, and if not, it requires an explicit accent mark. There are of course exceptions.