Commands - Comenzar

0
votes

If the Formal Affirmative Plural command (Uds) for a stem changing verb is formed by taking the base stem from the yo form and changing the ending to the opposite ending (AR verbs end in E, etc.) Then to make a command out of the verb COMENZAR isn't it "¡comienzen!" ? The answer in my book says it's comiencen.

Using VOLVER the same way, I'm confused why COMENZAR isn't comienzen.

Yo vuelvo = ¡vuelvan!
Yo comienzo = ¡comienzen!

Can anyone explain this with a very to the point and easy to understand explanation? Thanks!

16193 views
updated OCT 12, 2008
posted by Erin

14 Answers

1
vote

Erin said:

Ok, so then this would be the case for any verbs ending in 'ZAR'?

These are called regular orthographical changes. It also happens with verbs that end in

-ñir
-guar
-car
-gar
-zar
-cer
-cir
-ger
-gir

The C sounds differently if it is in front of a,o,u or e, i. If you want to keep its sound, sometimes you'll need a "qu", and sometimes a "z". Same goes for the G with the "j", and the GU with the "g".

updated OCT 18, 2009
posted by lazarus1907
1
vote

:

If the Formal Affirmative Plural command (Uds) for a stem changing verb is formed by taking the base stem from the yo form and changing the ending to the opposite ending (AR verbs end in E, etc.) Then to make a command out of the verb COMENZAR isn't it "¡comienzen!" ? The answer in my book says it's comiencen.

The sound of -ZAR in "comenzar" (Z sounds like the TH in English, or like an S in most parts of America) must be kept throughout the conjugation, but the Z must be avoided if the C can be used instead. The -CAR in "Comencar" would sound like "kar", so we must use ZAR, but in "comiencen", the CEN sounds exactly like ZEN, so the Z is avoided. The Z is used only in foreign words, and when the C cannot be used instead.

The conjugation that you are asking form is, strictly speaking, that of the present subjunctive. Regular verbs in -ar have the endings: -e, -es, -e, -emos, éis, en. Regular verbs in -er and -ir have the endings: -a, -as, -a, -amos, áis, an.

updated OCT 18, 2009
posted by lazarus1907
0
votes

lazarus1907 said:

látigo said:

Lazarus, I would be interested in the book or site where you found a list of all these verbs. Thanks. Also we could add verbs that end in -llir (bullir)--> bulló, bulleron, bullera, bullese, bullere (a worthless conjugation). How about verbs ending in -(consonant)cer like vencer---|> venzo, venza

I compiled all these lists myself with nearly 11,000 verbs some years ago; I was just writing all I could remember by heart. I compiled all the lists by myself. Anything in particular you're after?

Is that what you do for recreation? tongue laugh

updated OCT 12, 2008
posted by Natasha
0
votes

Good morning. Just curious and I want to thanks you again for your explanations.

lazarus1907 said:

látigo said:

Lazarus,I would be interested in the book or site where you found a list of all these verbs. Thanks. Also we could add verbs that end in -llir (bullir)--> bulló, bulleron, bullera, bullese, bullere (a worthless conjugation). How about verbs ending in -(consonant)cer like vencer---|> venzo, venza

I compiled all these lists myself with nearly 11,000 verbs some years ago; I was just writing all I could remember by heart. I compiled all the lists by myself. Anything in particular you're after?

>

updated OCT 12, 2008
posted by ltigo
0
votes

látigo said:

Lazarus, I would be interested in the book or site where you found a list of all these verbs. Thanks. Also we could add verbs that end in -llir (bullir)--> bulló, bulleron, bullera, bullese, bullere (a worthless conjugation). How about verbs ending in -(consonant)cer like vencer---|> venzo, venza

I compiled all these lists myself with nearly 11,000 verbs some years ago; I was just writing all I could remember by heart. I compiled all the lists by myself. Anything in particular you're after'

updated OCT 11, 2008
posted by lazarus1907
0
votes

Lazarus,
I would be interested in the book or site where you found a list of all these verbs. Thanks.
Also we could add verbs that end in -llir (bullir)--> bulló, bulleron, bullera, bullese, bullere (a worthless conjugation). How about verbs ending in -(consonant)cer like vencer---|> venzo, venza

lazarus1907 said:

I'll give you a few:car ? que: aparcar, comunicar, indicar, secar, equivocar(se), frabricar,... (over 600 verbs)gar ? gue: pagar, apagar, negar, fregar, jugar, pagar,... (over 350 verbs)zar ? ce: alcanzar, rozar, cazar, rezar, empezar, granizar,... (over 750 verbs)cer/cir ? zir: conducir, decir, ofrecer, conocer, hacer,... (over 300 verbs)ger/gir ? ja: dirigir, corregir, coger, fingir, elegir,... (over 50 verbs)guar ? güe: averiguar, menguar, aguar,... (21 verbs)guar ? guo: conseguir, seguir, extinguir,... (10 verbs)When the ÿ is followed by I, and other vowels, the I always disappears:ñió ? ñó: apañar, reñir, tenir,,... (12 verbs)All these are regular modifications.

>

updated OCT 11, 2008
posted by ltigo
0
votes

Ok, I got it, thank you so much this was very helpful.

updated OCT 11, 2008
posted by Erin
0
votes

Erin said:

formal: ¡no me busque! Don't look at me!familiar: ¡no me busques! Don't look at me! formal: ¡Búsqueme! Look at me! familiar: ¡Búscame! Look at me!

The conjugations are fine, but not the meanings. "Buscar" means "look for" (try to find), not "loot at".

P.S. Please, look at my previous post: I updated it.

updated OCT 11, 2008
posted by lazarus1907
0
votes

Gracias smile Is this correct? (all singular)

formal: ¡no me busque! Don't look at me!
familiar: ¡no me busques! Don't look at me!

formal: ¡Búsqueme! Look at me!
familiar: ¡Búscame! Look at me!

lazarus1907 said:

I'll give you a few: car ? que

>

updated OCT 11, 2008
posted by Erin
0
votes

I'll give you a few:

car ? que: aparcar, comunicar, indicar, secar, equivocar(se), frabricar,... (over 600 verbs)
gar ? gue: pagar, apagar, negar, fregar, jugar, pagar,... (over 350 verbs)
zar ? ce: alcanzar, rozar, cazar, rezar, empezar, granizar,... (over 750 verbs)
cer/cir ? zir: conducir, decir, ofrecer, conocer, hacer,... (over 300 verbs)
ger/gir ? ja: dirigir, corregir, coger, fingir, elegir,... (over 50 verbs)
guar ? güe: averiguar, menguar, aguar,... (21 verbs)
guar ? guo: conseguir, seguir, extinguir,... (10 verbs)

When the ÿ is followed by I, and other vowels, the I always disappears:

ñió ? ñó: apañar, reñir, tenir,,... (12 verbs)

All these are regular modifications.

updated OCT 11, 2008
posted by lazarus1907
0
votes

Nope... not all all.. :( This makes sense what you said, I'll just have to watch out for it I guess. Thank you!

lazarus1907 said:

Erin said:

Is that why BUSCAR is ¡busque! ?

Correct! If you had written it with "C", "busce" would sound like /busze/, and not like "busque" /buske/.

Does any of your resources cover all the endings I gave you?

>

updated OCT 11, 2008
posted by Erin
0
votes

Erin said:

Is that why BUSCAR is ¡busque! ?

Correct! If you had written it with "C", "busce" would sound like /busze/, and not like "busque" /buske/.

Does any of your resources cover all the endings I gave you'

updated OCT 11, 2008
posted by lazarus1907
0
votes

Is that why BUSCAR is ¡busque! '

updated OCT 11, 2008
posted by Erin
0
votes

Ok, so then this would be the case for any verbs ending in 'ZAR'?

lazarus1907 said:

:

If the Formal Affirmative Plural command (Uds) for a stem changing verb is formed by taking the base stem from the yo form and changing the ending to the opposite ending (AR verbs end in E, etc.) Then to make a command out of the verb COMENZAR isn't it "¡comienzen!" ? The answer in my book says it's comiencen.

The sound of -ZAR in "comenzar" (Z sounds like the TH in English, or like an S in most parts of America) must be kept throughout the conjugation, but the Z must be avoided if the C can be used instead. The -CAR in "Comencar" would sound like "kar", so we must use ZAR, but in "comiencen", the CEN sounds exactly like "ZEN", so the Z is avoided. The Z is used only in foreign words, and when the C cannot be used instead.

The conjugation that you are asking form is, strictly speaking, that of the present subjunctive. Regular verbs in -ar have the endings: -e, -es, -e, -emos, éis, en. Regular verbs in -er and -ir have the endings: -a, -as, -a, -amos, áis, an.

>

updated OCT 11, 2008
posted by Erin