me hubiera esperado más

Question

This was in a podcast I listened to:
"Tienes razón, pero si hubiera sido yo, en su lugar, me hubiera esperado más tiempo en salir con alguien más".

You're right, if it been me in her place, I'd have waited longer before going out with someone else.
...or something like that.
Nice subjunctive stuff there, but it's the little things that get me (and they are usually pronominal) how is 'me' being used in the above sentence'

Answer 1

This thread has become rather fragmented and I have reposted two questions as new threads to replace it.

Answer 2

Heidita this is my original question which formed as a sub-topic of this thread:

1) "Tienes razón, pero si hubiera sido yo, en su lugar, me hubiera esperado más tiempo en salir con alguien más".
2) "Tienes razón, pero si hubiera sido yo, en su lugar, me habría esperado más tiempo en salir con alguien más".
I hadn't noticed this aspect, but I am aware that hubiera is used to substitute habría in some places.I think hubiese can't be used in this sense(')

Are they exactly equivalent? Does hubiera cast more doubt? e.g.
In English I might say:

You're right, if it had been me in her place, I'd have waited longer before going out with someone else. (I would have)
or I could make it less of a definite statement:
You're right, if it had been me in her place, I might have waited longer before going out with someone else.(I might have)

My doubt about using hubiese related not to replacing hubiera above but about replacing habría (or the second hubiera in the sentence).

James gave some examples but I didn't think the hubiese was in the conditional part of the sentence (where he put estaría)

Lazarus said: (in the fuese and fuera thread)
The -se form has always been subjunctive (from Latin until now); the -ra form started as indicative, and ended up as subjunctive, along with the -se form, but still maintaining some "old" indicative values.
This is what I am rightly or wrongly referring to regarding hubiese but this is not what my question was about!

Answer 3

Heidita said:

>

Answer 4

Answer 5

Actually, I think Lazarus just answered the "hubiese" question [url=http://my.spanishdict.com/forum/topic/show'id=1710195%3ATopic%3A473299&page=1&commentId=1710195%3AComment%3A474645&x=1#1710195Comment474645]here[/url].

Answer 6

Regarding hubiese I think it is an alternative to hubiera as a subjunctive form it is used more sparingly or not at all in some areas of Latin America but more so in Spain in writing but also in speech. Some people use this form as a sort of preferred form when speaking and those people tend to stick with it. This is how it was explained to me, so this is not from any first hand experience.

I think lazarus' comments in the 'a quien fuera que fuese' thread apply here too.

Answer 7

Is not the "hubiese" construction reserved for written Spanish and is not an oral option?

James Santiago said:

ÿl, si hubiese esperado, ahora estaría en el primer equipoThe hubiese here isn't conditional, the estaría is (')Ah, sorry, I misunderstood you. I thought you meant it couldn't be used in the conditional+past subjunctive construction.I'll let someone else answer your actual question.

>

Answer 8

*ÿl, si hubiese esperado, ahora estaría en el primer equipo

The hubiese here isn't conditional, the estaría is (')*

Ah, sorry, I misunderstood you. I thought you meant it couldn't be used in the conditional+past subjunctive construction.

I'll let someone else answer your actual question.

Answer 9

James Santiago said:

Any offers for a Spanish equivalent to schadenfreude? (how come you didn't tell me I'd left the 'e' off')

I didn't notice it!

There is no equivalent word in Spanish, but the translation would be alegría por la desgracia ajena. I can't say if the German word is used in Spanish, but I highly doubt it. BTW, schadenfreude is often capitalized in English because such nouns are always capitalized in German, but more often it is anglicized and written lower-case.

I don't think hubiese can be used with that conditional meaning.

Yes, it can.

Webcites:

ÿl, si hubiese esperado, ahora estaría en el primer equipo

Aunque dicen que las comparaciones son odiosas, es un saludable ejercicio de análisis mediático pensar cómo habrían tratado los medios una noticia si hubiese acontecido en un país diferente del que sucedió.

¿Como sería España si la Reconquista hubiese fracasado?

Well I'm not gong to get embroiled in a grammatical discussion with someone that knows that Schadenfreude should be capitalized. There is certainly a situation in Spanish where hubiese can not be used to replace hubiera and I thought it was in use of conditional replacement of habría. Actually are your examples really conditional?

ÿl, si hubiese esperado, ahora estaría en el primer equipo

The hubiese here isn't conditional, the estaría is (')

Answer 10

Any offers for a Spanish equivalent to schadenfreude? (how come you didn't tell me I'd left the 'e' off')

I didn't notice it!

There is no equivalent word in Spanish, but the translation would be alegría por la desgracia ajena. I can't say if the German word is used in Spanish, but I highly doubt it. BTW, schadenfreude is often capitalized in English because such nouns are always capitalized in German, but more often it is anglicized and written lower-case.

I don't think hubiese can be used with that conditional meaning.

Yes, it can.

Webcites:

ÿl, si hubiese esperado, ahora estaría en el primer equipo

Aunque dicen que las comparaciones son odiosas, es un saludable ejercicio de análisis mediático pensar cómo habrían tratado los medios una noticia si hubiese acontecido en un país diferente del que sucedió.

¿Como sería España si la Reconquista hubiese fracasado'

Answer 11

James Santiago said:

Tad wrote: 1) "Tienes razón...etc..

I thought I'd corrected equivalent (only because my browser told me to), after already correcting definite which I often manage to mess up...what chance have I got with Spanish? The typo was a typo compounded by cut and pasting it again. :-(

I don't think hubiese can be used with that conditional meaning.
If they are equivalent how would one express doubt in Spanish in a similar way to my second (badly written) English example? (the 'might' one)
Any offers for a Spanish equivalent to schadenfreude? (how come you didn't tell me I'd left the 'e' off')

Answer 12

Tad wrote:
*1) "Tienes razón, pero si hubiera sido yo, en su lugar, me hubiera esperado más tiempo en salir con alguien más".
2) "Tienes razón, pero si hubiera sido yo, en su lugar, me habría esperado más tiempo en salir con alguien más".

Are they exactly equivilent? Does hubiera cast more doubt'*

As far as I know, they are equivalent. (BTW, if you have trouble remembering how to spell equivalent, as you did above, just remember that it is equi- + valent, with valent meaning value, as in atomic valency.)

Someone else will have to answer about whether hubiese could be used above, but I believe it could. I never use that form myself, nor do the Latin Americans I know.

Finally, this was probably just a typo, but you wrote "if it been me," but that has to be "it if had been me." Of course, strict grammarians would say that we have to say "if it had been I," but that sounds a bit stuffy. Personally, I would rewrite it as "if I had been in her place," which solves all the problems.

Answer 13

Looking on the dark side, I suppose one could view it as a testament to the brain's ability (and penchant) to filter/suppress sounds/words that are unfamiliar. Until they become familiar.

Answer 14

The Baader-Meinhoff gang were very (in)famous in the 70's but I've never come across the term Baader-Meinhoff principle before, but it's certainly true.
I'd probably heard the word schadenfreud a few times -maybe I'd maybe dismissed it as intellectual-speak but I was in my 30's when a colleague used it at work I asked him what it meant and of course realized then that it is used a lot (how come I never realized') and started seeing it everywhere. It is actually a very useful word without an English equivalent.

Is there a Spanish equivalent?

James Santiago said:

Tad, your question has been answered, but I'll just add that your sentence could also be written as follows. "Tienes razón, pero si hubiera sido yo, en su lugar, me habría esperado más tiempo en salir con alguien más."

The basic construction is {past subjunctive clause} + {conditional clause}, as in the version I give above, but Spanish speakers often replace the conditional form with another past subjunctive, as in your sentence.

BTW, I vote that we ban Tad from the forum if he changes his avatar again!

Well, I've got to keep you on your toes.

1) "Tienes razón, pero si hubiera sido yo, en su lugar, me hubiera esperado más tiempo en salir con alguien más".
2) "Tienes razón, pero si hubiera sido yo, en su lugar, me habría esperado más tiempo en salir con alguien más".
I hadn't noticed this aspect, but I am aware that hubiera is used to substitute habría in some places.I think hubiese can't be used in this sense(')

Are they exactly equivilent? Does hubiera cast more doubt? e.g.
In English I might say:

You're right, if it been me in her place, I'd have waited longer before going out with someone else. (I would have)
or I could make it less of a definite statement:
You're right, if it been me in her place, I might have waited longer before going out with someone else.(I might have)

Answer 15

samdie said:

Natasha said:

Yeah, what is that? I searched for it on google and came up with something about a German gang

And how many "googits" (or whatever is was that James used to like to say) did you come up with?

Actually, now I found it on Wikipedia, once I realized that the double-h was a typo.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baader-Meinhof_Phenomenon