One more question about the subjunctive
I would have expected the subjunctive in this sentence, but it's not there:
Estoy seguro de que un petirrojo no se equivoca de lado. / I am sure that a robin would not be on the wrong side.
And a few sentences later, again the mood is indicative.
¿Cómo podemos saber con certeza que los faunos están en el lado bueno . . . ' / How can we know for sure that the fawns are on the good side?
OK, so saber doesn't take the subjunctive, apparently. But Edmund (who's talking) certainly is not declaring or asserting that the fawns are on the good side; in point of fact, he is questioning this. So why not use the subjunctive here?
P.S. Don't worry, I go back to work full-time next week, so I'll stop asking so many questions!
3 Answers
lazarus1907 said:
Natasha said:
I hope that clerk rings up my total correctly. That clerk is ringing up my total correctly. At least, I hope so. How is that any different? But I know that should take the subjunctive in Spanish.
Espero que ese dependiente me dé el total correcto.
Ok, you've given me a perfect example to illustrate my point. And I'll prove to you that there is no "declaración" (as I defined it) in Spanish... or in English!!!
I hope that clerk rings up my total correctly.
Subordinate clause (the one with the subjunctive): "that clerk rings up my total correctly". Is this what you are telling the other person? (you can't change the tense) Is this your declaration? Compare what you are saying in both cases:
1) I hope that clerk rings up my total correctly.
2) That clerk rings up my total correctly.
Is it the same? No, because you haven't declared that the clerk does that or has done that: you are hoping it, and you should be conveying the same idea with "That clerk rings up my total correctly" with or without "I hope that..." if you want to use indicative. But you don't.
I was getting frustrated and didn't even notice (a) that one of the original statements was a question and that changed the situation, or (b) that I myself changed the tense. Sorry, I'll keep working on it. Thank you for all the explanations.
Natasha said:
I hope that clerk rings up my total correctly. That clerk is ringing up my total correctly. At least, I hope so.
How is that any different? But I know that should take the subjunctive in Spanish.
Espero que ese dependiente me dé el total correcto.
Ok, you've given me a perfect example to illustrate my point. And I'll prove to you that there is no "declaración" (as I defined it) in Spanish... or in English!!!
I hope that clerk rings up my total correctly.
Subordinate clause (the one with the subjunctive): "that clerk rings up my total correctly". Is this what you are telling the other person? (you can't change the tense) Is this your declaration? Compare what you are saying in both cases:
1) I hope that clerk rings up my total correctly.
2) That clerk rings up my total correctly.
Is it the same? No, because you haven't declared that the clerk does that or has done that: you are hoping it, and you should be conveying the same idea with "That clerk rings up my total correctly" with or without "I hope that..." if you want to use indicative. But you don't.
Ok, maybe I should explain myself before you interpret the word "declarar" in a way different from the one it was intended.
"Declarar" means to state something that you specifically want others to know, because it is what you think, know, believe... whatever. The idea is to give some information, independently of the content of the main sentence, i.e. if you can take the clause out of the sentence, and you are still saying the same, you use indicative:
Estoy seguro de que un petirrojo no se equivoca.
Un petirrojo no se equivoca (Y de eso estoy seguro, además).
As you can see, there is a clear "declaración". You could have said "Un pelirrojo no se equivoca", and you'd still have said exactly what you intended... but with a bit less information than if you add that you are sure of it.
In interrogative sentences, the declaration is part of the question itself, unless you don't want (or you cannot) state it, because it is unreal:
¿Los faunos están en el lado bueno? ¿Cómo podemos saberlo'
Notice that omitting the second question doesn't really affect what you intended to say with the first one. However, in sentences like:
Me alegro de que hayas venido.
Your intention was never to "inform" (=declarar) the other person that he has come: he already knows it. That clause with subjunctive is just used to say what you think about that fact, but it is not being "declarado", but assumed to be information that both the speaker and the other know.
If you omit the main sentence (Me alegro de...), and you just tell the other: "You have come", he'll probably reply: "Yes, I know. I don't need you to tell me that". You never intended to "declarar" that: it was only pronounced to say how you feel about it, and without the main clause, the meaning it conveys it is not the same.
I'm rushing a bit, but am I making any sense'
