i'M GLAD YOU CALLED TO CHANGE YOUR LIFE TODAY

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THERE IS A SCRIPT I HAVE TO KNOW IN ORDER TO GET THIS JOB, WOULD YOU LIKE FOR ME TO EXPLAIN IT TO YOU IN ENGLISH THE WHOLE SCRIPT'

2791 views
updated SEP 18, 2008
posted by tai-williams

15 Answers

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Natasha said:

samdie said:

Natasha said:

James Santiago said:

I bet you're a very good teacher, Lazarus, and your students are lucky to have you.

Agreed, too bad we're not in Spain . . . it is on the tip of my tongue that there's a better word to use for Lazarus' idea than "declare / not declare," but it won't quite come to me.

assert?

I like that, although it makes me feel like I'm writing object-oriented code (ha ha).


Actually the idea of assertions precedes the idea/popularity of object oriented code/languages. See, for example, the writings of Edgsar Dykstra. (more ha ha)

updated SEP 18, 2008
posted by samdie
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samdie said:

Natasha said:

James Santiago said:

I bet you're a very good teacher, Lazarus, and your students are lucky to have you.

Agreed, too bad we're not in Spain . . . it is on the tip of my tongue that there's a better word to use for Lazarus' idea than "declare / not declare," but it won't quite come to me.

assert?

I like that, although it makes me feel like I'm writing object-oriented code (ha ha).

updated SEP 18, 2008
posted by Natasha
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Natasha said:

James Santiago said:

I bet you're a very good teacher, Lazarus, and your students are lucky to have you.

Agreed, too bad we're not in Spain . . . it is on the tip of my tongue that there's a better word to use for Lazarus' idea than "declare / not declare," but it won't quite come to me.


assert'

updated SEP 18, 2008
posted by samdie
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James Santiago said:

I bet you're a very good teacher, Lazarus, and your students are lucky to have you.

Agreed, too bad we're not in Spain . . . it is on the tip of my tongue that there's a better word to use for Lazarus' idea than "declare / not declare," but it won't quite come to me.

updated SEP 18, 2008
posted by Natasha
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I bet you're a very good teacher, Lazarus, and your students are lucky to have you.

updated SEP 18, 2008
posted by 00bacfba
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The "declaration/not declaration" is not a grammatical rule in the traditional sense of the word, but a way of understanding the subjunctive logically, since the same distinction exists in English and many other languages, so you can actually extrapolate it once you has grasped the idea, which in any case, is taught with virtually no grammatical jargon in class. Teaching this method here, I've found, turned out not to be feasible, but neither is teaching subjunctive on-line using any other method. In class, using diagrams, images and a bit of role play, people get the idea surprisingly quick.

updated SEP 18, 2008
posted by lazarus1907
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James Santiago said:

The problem with that approach is that, to the English-speaking mind, it is NOT logical to use the subjunctive in a case such as this. That the person has called is a fact. That I am glad is also a fact. Therefore, to us, no assumptions are being made. Hence Natasha's confusion.

I understand what you are saying, Lazarus, and agree with it, but only up to a point. That is because I have been in many Spanish classes and have watched other students struggle with the subjunctive, even when it is explained similarly to how you have done it. For some people (including me), it is just easier to memorize the standard situations that call for the subjunctive. As we say in Japanese, juu-nin tou-iro, or "Ten people, ten colors." Para gustos se han hecho colores.

lazarus1907 said:

Natasha said:

Why haya, not ha? I'm never going to "get" the subjunctive . . .

You are not declaring here, because it is not your intention to tell the other person: "you have called"; this is already assumed in the conversation. You are just making a comment about this assumption, which doesn't have to be declared; therefore, you use subjunctive.

It is not that I disapprove saying that "Me alegro de que..." and similar sentences take subjunctive because it is wrong; my point is that the method of memorizing endless lists of structures and verbs without reasoning is long, painful, subject to many exceptions, and make people wonder "What is the point of the subjunctive'". I prefer to explain it with a simple and logical single rule, which also can explain apparent exceptions to the "yellow pages memorization" approach to the subjunctive. The subjunctive is logical, and that's why all natives can use it without any problems; to teach it as a long list of rules with countless exceptions, all meaningless and illogical, makes no sense to me.

Actually, part of my problem is that after learning basic Spanish grammar (verb conjugations, whatever) my more advanced courses had a philosophy of not explaining the grammar at all. So I was left without either kind of explanation (declare/not declare, or a list of phrases). That's why sometimes things "don't sound right" to me in Spanish posted on this site, but I don't know how to fix them.

updated SEP 18, 2008
posted by Natasha
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The problem with that approach is that, to the English-speaking mind, it is NOT logical to use the subjunctive in a case such as this. That the person has called is a fact. That I am glad is also a fact. Therefore, to us, no assumptions are being made. Hence Natasha's confusion.

I understand what you are saying, Lazarus, and agree with it, but only up to a point. That is because I have been in many Spanish classes and have watched other students struggle with the subjunctive, even when it is explained similarly to how you have done it. For some people (including me), it is just easier to memorize the standard situations that call for the subjunctive. As we say in Japanese, juu-nin tou-iro, or "Ten people, ten colors." Para gustos se han hecho colores.

lazarus1907 said:

Natasha said:

Why haya, not ha? I'm never going to "get" the subjunctive . . .

You are not declaring here, because it is not your intention to tell the other person: "you have called"; this is already assumed in the conversation. You are just making a comment about this assumption, which doesn't have to be declared; therefore, you use subjunctive.

It is not that I disapprove saying that "Me alegro de que..." and similar sentences take subjunctive because it is wrong; my point is that the method of memorizing endless lists of structures and verbs without reasoning is long, painful, subject to many exceptions, and make people wonder "What is the point of the subjunctive'". I prefer to explain it with a simple and logical single rule, which also can explain apparent exceptions to the "yellow pages memorization" approach to the subjunctive. The subjunctive is logical, and that's why all natives can use it without any problems; to teach it as a long list of rules with countless exceptions, all meaningless and illogical, makes no sense to me.

>

updated SEP 18, 2008
posted by 00bacfba
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Natasha said:

Why haya, not ha? I'm never going to "get" the subjunctive . . .

You are not declaring here, because it is not your intention to tell the other person: "you have called"; this is already assumed in the conversation. You are just making a comment about this assumption, which doesn't have to be declared; therefore, you use subjunctive.

It is not that I disapprove saying that "Me alegro de que..." and similar sentences take subjunctive because it is wrong; my point is that the method of memorizing endless lists of structures and verbs without reasoning is long, painful, subject to many exceptions, and make people wonder "What is the point of the subjunctive'". I prefer to explain it with a simple and logical single rule, which also can explain apparent exceptions to the "yellow pages memorization" approach to the subjunctive. The subjunctive is logical, and that's why all natives can use it without any problems; to teach it as a long list of rules with countless exceptions, all meaningless and illogical, makes no sense to me.

updated SEP 18, 2008
posted by lazarus1907
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Why haya, not ha'

Lazarus may disapprove of my method, but I learned that the subjunctive is always used after such phrases as alegrarse de que.

updated SEP 18, 2008
posted by 00bacfba
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James Santiago said:

Natasha said:

I think she just wants to know how to translate the sentence in the title.

In that case, I guess I would say "Me alegro de que haya llamado para cambiar su vida."

Why haya, not ha? I'm never going to "get" the subjunctive . . .

updated SEP 18, 2008
posted by Natasha
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I apologize for the caps lock, I'm new at the whole online practice....

James Santiago said:

Natasha said:

I think she just wants to know how to translate the sentence in the title.

In that case, I guess I would say "Me alegro de que haya llamado para cambiar su vida."

>

updated SEP 18, 2008
posted by tai-williams
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Natasha said:

I think she just wants to know how to translate the sentence in the title.

In that case, I guess I would say "Me alegro de que haya llamado para cambiar su vida."

updated SEP 18, 2008
posted by 00bacfba
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I think she just wants to know how to translate the sentence in the title.

Yes, Tai, you apparently had CAPS LOCK on. Please be more careful in the future.

updated SEP 18, 2008
posted by Natasha
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NO NEED TO SHOUT. Ah, that's better.

What exactly is your question'

updated SEP 18, 2008
posted by 00bacfba