uniforme y viajar
Tengo dos preguntas sobre cosas que he leído esta semana.
- ¿Tienen que llevar uniforme a la escuela?
¿Por qué no se usa la forma plural aquí? ¿Es normal que cuando hay un sujeto plural, el sustantivo que pertenece al sujeto es singular, aunque en realidad cada sujeto tiene su propio sustantivo? En inglés tendría que ser "Do they have to wear uniforms to school'"
- Ella viajará en el autobús escloar este año.
No sabía que el verbo viajar podía usarse en casos así, en que la distancia no es muy larga. Yo habría usado "tomar." ¿Eso también sería correcto? ¿Alguien me puede dar unos ejemplos del uso de viajar cuando no tiene nada que ver con un "viaje"'
27 Answers
*'They wear uniforms at school', well it could be that at a particular school they have a different uniform in the morning to that of the afternoon.
Of course in reality we would say 'That's such a weird school -they've got different uniforms for different times of the day.*
Hi tad, thanks for the input...it would be rather unusual in Spain too.
Aaand...ever heard of ladies having the last word! jejejeje
tad said:
Eddy said:
As a matter of interest, which star sign is a grammarian?
I'm not sure, but I think they mix well with Pisceans and Statisticians.
That's good enough for me.
Eddy said:
As a matter of interest, which star sign is a grammarian?
I'm not sure, but I think they mix well with Pisceans and Statisticians.
tad said:
James Santiago said:
If we said, tienen que llevar uniformes, it sounds like they have to wear several different uniforms.Interesting. Then how would you translate the following? They are eating apples. (Each person is eating one apple. If apple were singular, it would mean that everyone was sharing one apple.)They drive their cars to work.
'They are eating apples' does not necessarily mean that each person is eating one apple, it is the most likely scenario, but some of them may be eating two apples, some of them may not like apples and not eat any. It is a general statement that as a group they are eating apples. You could specify the situation by saying 'They were eating an apple each'They drive their car to work. Is that grammatically incorrect? (I don't know I'm not a grammarian)(Actually, upon further reflection, I realize that in English we can also say "Do they have to wear a uniform to school'," which would mean the same thing as the plural form. We don't make the distinction that you do in Spanish, though, as the plural form does not imply that each student has more than one uniform.)Isn't that due to common sense rather than a grammatical rule.'They wear uniforms to school' could mean they wear more than one uniform -what about changing 'to' to 'at''They wear uniforms at school', well it could be that at a particular school they have a different uniform in the morning to that of the afternoon.Of course in reality we would say 'That's such a weird school -they've got different uniforms for different times of the day.
Tad
As a matter of interest, which star sign is a grammarian'
James Santiago said:
If we said, tienen que llevar uniformes, it sounds like they have to wear several different uniforms. Interesting. Then how would you translate the following?
They are eating apples. (Each person is eating one apple. If apple were singular, it would mean that everyone was sharing one apple.)
They drive their cars to work.
'They are eating apples' does not necessarily mean that each person is eating one apple, it is the most likely scenario, but some of them may be eating two apples, some of them may not like apples and not eat any. It is a general statement that as a group they are eating apples. You could specify the situation by saying 'They were eating an apple each'
They drive their car to work. Is that grammatically incorrect? (I don't know I'm not a grammarian)
*
(Actually, upon further reflection, I realize that in English we can also say "Do they have to wear a uniform to school'," which would mean the same thing as the plural form. We don't make the distinction that you do in Spanish, though, as the plural form does not imply that each student has more than one uniform.)*
Isn't that due to common sense rather than a grammatical rule.
'They wear uniforms to school' could mean they wear more than one uniform -what about changing 'to' to 'at'
'They wear uniforms at school', well it could be that at a particular school they have a different uniform in the morning to that of the afternoon.
Of course in reality we would say 'That's such a weird school -they've got different uniforms for different times of the day.
James Santiago said:
Oh, but it would surprise me if this could not be understood like this too ."Do they have to wear uniforms to school'"They wear several uniforms to school, one each day.I don't believe a native speaker would ever interpret it that way. We would always assume that the plural uniforms referred respectively to the plural students, that is, that each student wears only one kind of uniform, every day.
I was about to say that possiblity too.
The Spanish sentences have the same nuances:
Llevan uniforme.
Todos los alumnos llevan uniforme: uno cada uno.
Can be translated as: they wear a uniform/they wear uniforms.
Llevan uniformes.
Llevan un uniforme cada uno/llevan varios uniformes
Esto último sería una interpretación rara , la verdad, pero es posible. Es lo que he querido decir en mi alusión a la misma frase en inglés.
Can be translated as : they wear uniforms
..and which can be interpreted the same way.
María un pequeña puntualización: la palabra es trasladar (no lleva n)
Respuesta para la 2
Seria correcto tanto "viajar" como "tomar", igual se podria escribir "Ella ira en el autobus escolar este año" o "Ella se transladara en autobus escolar este año"
"Viajar" se utiliza para transladarse a un lugar distante, independientemente del medio de transporte.
Tambien se utiliza para decir que se esta bajo la influencia de alguna droga alucinogena.
Heidita said:
We seem to have a failure to communicate here. Definitely.
What I said I realized (a few posts ago) was that THE ENGLISH has the same meaning in plural and singular.
Indeed, which is what I was referring to.
I said nothing about realizing anything about the Spanish, and your comment above was only about the Spanish.
No, it was not. I said, the Spanish sentence referred to the English sentence:" do they have to wear a uniform", which had the same meaning as the other English sentence.
the singular in Spanish here means that each student has one uniform, while the plural implies that they each have more than one uniform.
I didn't' say that. I said, this sounded like this, could of course also be understood perfectly the other way round.
This is not true in English, however, which was what I realized.
Oh, but it would surprise me if this could not be understood like this too .
"Do they have to wear uniforms to school'"
. They wear several uniforms to school, one each day. Or, they wear one uniform each to school, always the same one.
This exchange is beginning to sound like a "Laurel and Hardy" (or "Abbot and Costello") exchange.
In the US, generally, If the students are required to wear uniforms, the "code" requires "a particular uniform".
As I tried to suggest earlier, strict grammarians would like to insist that "they wear a uniform" suggests the same sort of unlikely scenario as "they eat an apple" (in other words, multiple subjects acting on a single object). However, even strict grammarian are not completely oblivious to "common usage" and would realize that the likelihood of a number of students trying to fit themselves into a _single_ uniform [or eat a single apple] requires a serious stretch of imagination) and would be inclined to look for a more "likely" interpretation ( such as, numerous students=numerous uniforms [and, most probably] one uniform per person]). It would appear that in Spanish (even strict grammarians) are not similarly encumbered. ¡Viva la diferencia!"
*Oh, but it would surprise me if this could not be understood like this too .
"Do they have to wear uniforms to school'"
They wear several uniforms to school, one each day.*
I don't believe a native speaker would ever interpret it that way. We would always assume that the plural uniforms referred respectively to the plural students, that is, that each student wears only one kind of uniform, every day.
We seem to have a failure to communicate here.
Definitely.
What I said I realized (a few posts ago) was that THE ENGLISH has the same meaning in plural and singular.
Indeed, which is what I was referring to.
I said nothing about realizing anything about the Spanish, and your comment above was only about the Spanish.
No, it was not. I said, the Spanish sentence referred to the English sentence:" do they have to wear a uniform", which had the same meaning as the other English sentence.
the singular in Spanish here means that each student has one uniform, while the plural implies that they each have more than one uniform.
I didn't' say that. I said, this sounded like this, could of course also be understood perfectly the other way round.
This is not true in English, however, which was what I realized.
Oh, but it would surprise me if this could not be understood like this too .
"Do they have to wear uniforms to school'"
. They wear several uniforms to school, one each day. Or, they wear one uniform each to school, always the same one.
Actually, I only "sort of" agree with James on this point. I would accept "they ... _a_ uniform" in conversation but I don't think that I would say/write it in formal contexts. Even in conversations, I think I would _prefer_ "uniforms" but the singular wouldn't provoke a "didactic mode" type-response.
Yes, I agree that "uniforms" sounds much more natural (hence my original comment), but what I realized is that, as you say, we sometimes do use the singular for the same meaning. I also agree that the plural would be more appropriate for careful writing or speech.
It's interesting that in Spanish the plural/singular has a definite distinction, while that is not true in English here.
James Santiago said:
Heidita said:
(Actually, upon further reflection, I realize that in English we can also say "Do they have to wear a uniform to school'," Oh, does that mean you didn't read my post?
Um, I replied to your post, which would have been difficult had I not read it first. I'm not sure what you are trying to say. Read my last reply to Lazarus and you'll see that I said that the plural and singular forms both have the same meaning in English here.
Actually, I only "sort of" agree with James on this point. I would accept "they ... _a_ uniform" in conversation but I don't think that I would say/write it in formal contexts. Even in conversations, I think I would _prefer_ "uniforms" but the singular wouldn't provoke a "didactic mode" type-response.
Not really, the Spanish version refers to " do they have to wear a uniform"
We seem to have a failure to communicate here. What I said I realized (a few posts ago) was that THE ENGLISH has the same meaning in plural and singular. I said nothing about realizing anything about the Spanish, and your comment above was only about the Spanish. I understood what you said, and I said it was "interesting." But that has nothing to do with my realization. As you and Lazarus have explained, the singular in Spanish here means that each student has one uniform, while the plural implies that they each have more than one uniform. This is not true in English, however, which was what I realized.
James Santiago said:
Heidita said:
If you only just realized that...you are slow. I realized that 2 hours ago. lol
But you never SAID that. It would be great if you could share your wisdom with the slower of us in the future.
Which is why I asked if you hadn't read my post, look at post 1!
Not really, the Spanish version refers to " do they have to wear a uniform"
