se, le, etc.
I have been struggling for a while now trying to understand how the Spanish word se is used.
For example, a possible translation for
The plate has been broken
is
Se ha roto el plato.
I don't understand this translation, because I think it translates to
'? has broken the plate
where '? is where the translation of se should be, and I obviously don't know what that should be. Is se being used here as a reflexive pronoun, i.e. the plate has broken itself? That doesn't seem logical - how can an inanimate object break itself?
Does
Se ha roto el plato
actually translate to
He/she/it has broken the plate
or is the correct translation
It the plate has broken
or is it
The plate has broken itself?
I would have thought the translation for
The plate has been broken
should have been
El plato ha sido roto.
Additionally, here in Arizona I frequently see signs that announce
Se habla español.
Again, the mysterious se. I know this allegedly means
Spanish spoken here
but what is the actual translation? Is it
He/She/It speaks Spanish
or
Spanish speaks itself
or ''?
Thanks in advance for any insight.
15 Answers
Ah, the ubiquitous "se" !
In my high school Spanish classes I was taught that the "se" is a reflexive pronoun. There was no further explanation as far as I can remember, but that's been many years ago.
We often us "se" in Spanish to avoid identifying the real subject of the verb. In English, we use the passive mood to do the same thing. "Spanish is spoken here." Who actually speaks Spanish?
"The plate is broken." Again that's passive. Who broke the plate?
I guess the trick is to get the meaning of the sentence, rather than trying to translate each word. That just doesn't work.
If you look under the reference tab on this site, you'll find a link to Spanish Grammar References. On that link in the Pronouns section, you'll find a several entries about the pronoun se. There are examples, and some quizzes to make sure you understand.
Have fun.
Calvo
If you still have any questions about SE (which I think after all this help you're probably fine!), you can look at the following links:
http://www.spanishdict.com/reference/verbs/reflexive-verbs
http://www.spanishdict.com/reference/verbs/reciprocal-verbs
http://www.spanishdict.com/reference/verbs/impersonal-se
http://www.spanishdict.com/reference/verbs/passive-se
They all have explanations, examples, and exercises at the bottom so you can see if you understand this mountain of information we have all given you.
They are all right. However:
1) Plates don't usually break themselves. Pragmatical (but not syntactical) considerations make this interpretation almost impossible. If you heard from someone "I am tired", you wouldn't think that his name is "tired", even though the reasoning is grammatically correct. Of course, you can write the story of the dish who didn't like to remain intact, and threw itself to the floor to break.
2) This one is not so extremely unlikely, but it is very rare. You need to find a context where a people broke a dish for a good reason, and where you prefer to omit the agent (i.e. the people who broke it). Something as extreme as this might do the trick: The magic dish brought bad luck to everyone, so it was broken (by the villagers).
3) ...which leaves us with the most likely interpretation: because of whatever the reason, the dish just broke.
*I don't understand this translation, because I think it translates to
'? has broken the plate*
Literal translations again... They just don't work. Try to translate word by word something like "Get it over with" into any other language on Earth and you'll get something completely nonsensical and grammatically wrong.
Let me put it simple: A Spanish SE has no less than 7 different functions (over 13 if you want to be precise), and you'll need many different structures to translate into English depending on the verbs, the rest of the words in the sentence, the intention of the speaker and the context. You just cannot expect to translate word by word and find a magic equivalent in English for SE; there is none! English doesn't have such a word, and its grammar is different! Sometimes people ask how to translate "Get" into Spanish, just like that. Well... you'll need literally over 50 different verbs (I have the list, by the way) depending on what you want to say, if you want a decent translation. There is no magic translation for GET into Spanish that works all the time.
This doesn't answer your question, but, 'se', like many other words in Spanish, is difficult to understand when we use it as it's literal translation in English. Don't be discouraged. With time and practice when speaking or writing in Spanish you will begin to think in Spanish. Only then will words like 'se? be clear for you.
Se ha roto el plato? I don't think plates break themselves. Someone must have dropped it or so, but is rather reluctant to own up to it. And anyway, the result is more important than what actually happened to it or who is responsible for breaking it. The plate is broken.
'Se' is also frequently used in sentences that imply an indefinite subject. In English we frequently use the passive voice to avoid these indefinite pronouns., such as 'English is spoken all over the world'.The French use 'on' : Ici on parle Anglais. In Spanish : Se habla inglés
It's not that hard as long as you seek the essence of the construct rather than a purely grammatical interpretation or translation. The "se" merely impersonalizes the action in the cited case. "Se me cayó el plato", or "se me rompió el vaso" are other typical examples. Similarly in English we can say, "argh, the glass broke", instead of "I broke the glass" or "darn, the plate went and fell on me", instead of "I dropped the plate", (in the latter example it being clearly understood that the plate did not literally fall ON me). In English the passive gently implies a sense of escapism, transfer of agency from the individual to an extraneous force, or, possibly, simple politeness, as in "loud speech is discouraged here" as opposed to "be quiet" (the former more likely to be seen in the UK, the latter in the USA). I suspect it's probably the same in Spanish and other languages. "Se habla español" really means, contextually, "we speak Spanish here". Why they don't just get directly to the point and say "hablamos español" escapes me although I do see it presented that way on occasion. Hmmm, maybe it's not that simple after all! Or maybe it's just a case of there being more than one way to express a thought without the need to analyze so much.
Read my comments above: SE in Spanish can be too many things. Sometimes is a passive, sometimes is "(to) him/here", "each other", it doesn't have a translation, it is "one", or many other things. Translations don't help... because there is none!
"El plato rotarse" is wrong in Spanish, I'm afraid.
I am also a bit confused about the phrase "se habla español." Most people translate that to be "Spanish is spoken here," but I would think of it more as "one speaks Spanish" with "here" being understood.
Very bad translation, as it doesn't mean "one speaks Spanish", but "Spanish is spoken here". If you wanted to say "one speaks Spanish", you'd have to say "Uno habla español", and it'd still be an impersonal sentence in Spanish. But a different one.
"Se come bien aquí".
This kind of "SE", called impersonal in Spanish grammars, requires different structures in English for a proper translation, only one of which is "Well is eaten here" (which is ridiculous, of course).
The proper translation (IN THIS CASE) would be something like "You eat well here" (where this "you" refers to everyone, and not just YOU).
If you want a grammatical explanation (very few people do), transitive verbs with SE are normally easily translated into English with the passive, but verbs used intransitively, such as this "comer" here, without an object, require something like this "You...".
I feel your pain. The description 'reflexive' is one aspect of the use of pronominal verbs. Lazaras said here before there are 7 categories. Butt and Benjamin list 8 although one of those seems a bit dubious to me.
Se ha roto el plato
One translation might be 'the plate has broken on me' (rather than I broke the plate)
this construction turns up a lot 'Se me olvidó' -'it was forgotten to me' or better or 'it slipped my mind' would be an English equivalent -the personal act of forgetting is being removed.
Se habla español 'Spanish spoken here' an example of 'se' being used impersonally
I'm nowhere close to understanding 'se' yet -some of its aspects are definitely very tricky!
For me in the senteces "se ha roto el plato", " se habla español" the agent is not identifiable therefore is omitted. This is a passive "se".
A plate can't broke itself (it is not a reflexive).
A plate has broken = se ha roto el plato. It doesn't matter who broke it.
Se habla español. Who'. Not one, there are people who speaks Spanish there, that's all, we don't need to pin it down who.
Se come bien aquí. Who'. Well, me and maybe other people, so I make a general statement.
I've never heard that phrase before - would that translate to "there is good food here," or "one would eat well here'"
I always think of "se" in terms of using the word "one" to refer to an undefined person/people.
Therefore, I would translate that to be more along the lines of "one has broken the plate" rather than "the plate has broken itself."
I seem to recall that if one were to say "el plato rotarse" that would translate to, "the plate breaks itself," but I'm not sure if using "se" in any other conjugation carries the same meaning of the object/person in question having done something itself/themself.
I am also a bit confused about the phrase "se habla español." Most people translate that to be "Spanish is spoken here," but I would think of it more as "one speaks Spanish" with "here" being understood.
I suppose that could be the undefined person/people I mentioned previously, since saying that Spanish is spoken doesn't imply that everyone can speak it there.
You grammar gurus correct me if I'm wrong, but
"Se ha roto el plato" can actually be interpreted 3 ways:
1) Reflexiva - The plate broke itself.
2) Pasiva-refleja - The plate was broken (implicit agent)
3) Voz media - The plate broke (no agent)
"Se habla español" does translate to "spanish spoken here". So you are correct.
What you're wondering is why the 'se'?
Well, it has to do with making the sentence "impersonal". Meaning there is no "agent" related to the verb.
It's like "Se come bien aquí".
