Remembering indirect and direct object pronoun placement.

Question

hola

Does anyone have a good way of remembering to place the object pronouns before the verb or subject. When I do speak spanish, i say it the way i would in english. Then i remember that most of the time i have to flip flop it. Any ideas'

Answer 1

Having done the grammar some thirty years ago, that's one of the few things I remember, le lo becomes se lo, I believe for diction purpose.

Answer 2

I'll answer your last question first: I am a vampire!

Regarding "lelo", according to my etymology dictionaries, it is a phonetic creation from at least the beginning of the 18th century, where a syllable is repeated like in bobo, gaga, or memo (I love this one when a see a "memo/memorandum").

I'll see what can I find about the origins of this transformation anyway.

Answer 3

¡Me quedo lelo!

I guess that's a pretty good reason, although it makes me wonder which came first, the word lelo or the rule for selo.

Thanks! And what are you doing up so late'

Answer 4

The "so called" reflexive must be either direct or indirect:

Me lavo ("me" is a reflexive direct object)
Me la cara lavo ("me" is a reflexive indirect object, and "la cara" the direct one)

Answer 5

I haven't checked this, but I remember that most grammars mention some "cacophony" here. If there is a real phonetical reason, I need to give it some thought, to be honest, because I can not see it right now.

However, bear in mind that "lelo" means stupid (for a man), "lela" is stupid (for a woman), and the same with "lelos" and "lelas". That alone can be a reason, don't you think?

Answer 6

A way to remember the order if you have all 3, is the RID rule
reflexive
indirect
direct

Answer 7

Note that all "le" + DO become "se" + DO.

And that "les" + DO also becomes "se" + DO.

I have always wondered about the reason for this rule. I don't think "le lo," "le la," etc., is especially difficult to pronounce (although "les las" might be a bit hard), and the change to "se lo" doesn't resolve any ambiguity.

Do you know the history of this rule and how it came about'

Answer 8

Muchias gracias

Answer 9

I don't know any easy mnemonic rule, but the indirect goes always before the direct:

me lo
me la
me los
me las

te lo
te la
te los
te las

se lo
se la
se los
se las

nos lo
nos la
nos los
nos las

os lo
os la
os los
os las

Note that all "le" + DO become "se" + DO.