"De color" and "Del color"

Question

Dear forumites:

As I have done before, I describe a phenomenon and ask for explanation.

I know to say Busco una camisa del color perfecto, but Busco una camisa de color pardo. What I don't know is why I use del in one case and de in the other.

Can any of you provide links to websites, in Spanish or English, that discuss this? Or can you just tell me, in excruciating detail, the rules or conventions that apply to these situations?

Thanks.

Answer 1

Hello jtaniel,

Both sentences Busco una camisa del color perfecto and Busco una camisa de color pardo are correct.

I would say the rule is that you use de when you refer to a color itself, and you use del when you refer not to a color but to an adjective that describes a characteristic of it.

For example, when you say Busco una camisa del color perfecto" you use del because perfecto is not a color, but you are saying that you are looking for a color that has tied to it the characteristic of perfection, that is perfect. Whereas when you say "Busco una camisa de color pardo" you use de because pardo is a color, a hue of brown.

I'm not an expert, but I think that would be the rule, or at least I can think of situations in which it applies. Here you have other two examples: "Busco una camisa de color rojo". Being rojo a color. "Busco una camisa del color de las manzanas". Being de las manzanas an adjective construction that tells you that the color you are looking for is the same color of apples.

Since english is not my mother tongue, is possible that i said something wrong, so I encourage you to tell me if you didn't understand anything, and also to correct any mistakes I did.

Hope this solves your doubt.

"...you use de when you refer to a color itself, and you use del when you refer not to a color but to an adjective that describes a characteristic of it." That seems right, but... why??? Thank you. - jtaniel, Aug 19, 2017

Y por cierto, bienvenido al foro. - jtaniel, Aug 19, 2017

Like I said. It must be idiomatic. jeje. - Daniela2041, Aug 19, 2017

Me encanta la respuesta, Emanuelle. - Daniela2041, Aug 19, 2017

a mí también, bienvenida al foro, ema :) - 006595c6, Aug 20, 2017

Answer 2

Busco una camisa de color pardo. Busco una camisa de color perfecto.

Both above are ok.
but
Busco una camisa del color pardo doesn't sound good.

I would suggest using "de" so it will always be good..

Others could be
Busco una camisa de corte americano.
Busco una camisa de precio económico.
Busco una camisa de tela de jean.
Busco una camisa de cuello Mao. ( a kind of collar)
Busco una camisa de tamaño pequeño.
Busco una camisa de manga larga.

"De" always seems to be suitable while "del" is a risky choice.

Una perspectiva interesante... gracias. - jtaniel, Aug 20, 2017

A tí jtaniel - polenta1, Aug 20, 2017

Answer 3

From what I can see, this is one case where the Spanish and English agree.

I am looking for a shirt with the perfect color. I am looking for a shirt of brown color (I am looking for a brown colored shirt.) The first sentence has the article "the" in English and the second one doesn't.

Don't expect any excruciating details from me. You know my style.

I don't think that there is any rule on this. It may be idiomatic.

Lazarus is the chief grammarian here. I will defer to him.

It can't be that simple!!!!! Thanks. - jtaniel, Aug 19, 2017

Answer 4

I don't believe that rule always works. For example if you say:

"Busco una camisa de color oscuro"

"Oscuro" is an adjective but you do not use "del". Still what Daniela said works here. Maybe you should stick with her answer.

Un buen punto. Gracias. Confiar en lo que dice ella es generalmente una buena idea. ;-) - jtaniel, Aug 21, 2017

Answer 5

I know to say Busco una camisa del color perfecto, but Busco una camisa de color pardo. What I don't know is why I use del in one case and de in the other.

Can any of you provide links to websites, in Spanish or English, that discuss this? Or can you just tell me, in excruciating detail, the rules or conventions that apply to these situations?

Jtaniel: I'll try.

First of all, why can we say "camisa de color pardo" instead of having to say "camisa del color pardo" ?

Color is a noun. Pardo is an adjective. So color pardo is a noun phrase (acts like a noun but is composed of a noun + adjective.)

Now I want to be able to write "brown color shirt"...can I just write "color pardo camisa" or "camisa color pardo." No. Unlike English, where two nouns can be put next to each other, with one acting as an adjective of the other. (e.g. Chicago Police) this cannot be done in Spanish. We have to use the connector / preposition "de" in order to do this. (Policía de Chicago)

camisa de color pardo = brown color shirt

So, hopefully I have just proven to you why it is OK to use "de" here instead of having to use "del". I don't think "del" would necessarily be grammatically incorrect, it just isn't necessary and probably for that reason, it isn't as common.

Now, what about? (in both languages)
I am looking for a shirt of the perfect color. (OK to say it this way)
Busco una camisa del perfecto color. (OK to say it this way)

Could we say...instead?: (in either language)
I am looking for a perfect colored shirt. (poorly said)
I am looking for a shirt colored perfect. (poorly said)
Busco una camisa de perfecto color. (poorly said)

Let's look at the English first:
"I am looking for a perfect colored shirt" is ambiguous. It isn't even clear we are talking about the color being perfect! It could just be any colored shirt that was perfect in size, material, etc.

I am looking for a shirt colored perfect. What color is perfect?

The Spanish sentence:
Busco una camisa de perfecto color.
Suffers from the same problem. It sounds as if there might be a Spanish color named perfect. You don't really mean that it IS is the perfect color, just that it "be perfect" according to some criteria which you should specify. (see below)

So...why is it proper to say:
Busco una camisa del perfecto color.

You are using "perfect" as a superlative here. Just as you would say "del mejor" for "of the best" you need to have "del" for "of the perfect"

Why? Because "perfect color" is not really a known thing...it is subjective. It begs to be explained.

I am looking for a shirt of the perfect color to go with my new blue suit. I am looking for a shirt of the perfect color to not show sweat when it gets hot.

Anyway, I hope you understand now why "del" is necessary in one case, while "de" is all that is needed in the other.

Thanks for your answer, Ken. You clearly took a lot of time constructing it. But... I don't see how superlatives enter into this. "Busco una camisa del mismo color." "Busco una camisa del color que vi ayer." - jtaniel, Aug 20, 2017

When you are dealing with any adjective other than a color, which modifies the noun color you have to use del just as you did in your example sentence above. (que vi ayer is an adjective phrase) - DilKen, Aug 20, 2017

nice ken, very thorough, nice to see you , hadn't seen you for a couple of days - 006595c6, Aug 21, 2017