Reflexive verbs - real verbs or verb forms?
I'm making my way in the reflexive verb world and haven't found an answer to this question yet...
I know reflexive verbs require the use of reflexive pronouns to indicate that the direct object of the verb is also the subject.
AND that I can make many verbs reflexive by adding these reflexive pronouns.
BUT, are reflexive verbs like 'lavarse' and 'quedarse' actually standalone verbs, or are they simply forms of the root verb.
I often find these verbs in SpanishDict as standalone entries but in the Real Academia they come under the infinitives. I'm guessing the Academy has it, but can someone confirm?
4 Answers
Some verbs take "se" when the object and the subject are the same, as "lavarse", the reflexive form of "lavar".
However, other verbs change their meanings when you add the "se", they become new verbs. I would say that this is the case of "quedarse" and "quedar", as in "irse" and "ir". "Quedar(se)" is a very confusing verb, cause it means many different things. As a non reflexive verb, it tends to mean "to be left", "to remain" or "to be located". As a reflexive, "to stay" or "to end up" in a certain situation (this can also be non reflexive).
I hope you find this answer helpful (an not more confusing!).
I can only confirm one thing: even among academics, there is no absolute consensus, but there are many things most of the agree on.
In Spanish grammars, no one uses the term "reflexive verb", for very good reasons: both "lavarme" (wash me), "lavarte" (wash you) and "lavarse" (wash himself/herself) can be reflexive. "Lavarme" is reflexive if it´s me who washes myself, but it's not if someone else is washing me, and yet, it is the exact same verb and pronoun doing the exact same form, so the verb is not a reflexive verb -the reflexibility comes in when the subject matches the object. In "lavarse", however, the person and the object must be both the same (3rd person, him/her/it), so it can only be interpreted as reflexive, but again, use a different pronoun, and grammatically everything stays the same. It's not a reflexive verb, but a reflexive pronoun ("se").
There are some verbs that are described as pronominal, because they must be used with the pronoun, like "suicidarse" (to commit suicide), so it might be fair to call these verbs reflexive, if you prefer the term. However, while you could see why "suicidarse" can be reflexive, there are many of these verbs where a reflexive interpretation makes no sense whatsoever -you just have to use the pronoun and that's it.
Now, "lavarse" is just a verb with an object pronoun that matches the subject, and identical to "lavarme", and identical to "lavar" except for the missing pronoun, so it's not a reflexive verb. However, "quedarse" is different, because "quedar" and "quedarse" are different verbs, with different syntax and meaning (for most modern speakers), and while you can say "lavarme, lavarte, lavarlo, lavarse, lavarnos...", you can't randomly change the pronoun to go with "quedarse", and there is nothing syntactically reflexive at all, so it is regarded as pronominal. Some dictionaries list "quedar" and "quedarse" as different verbs, as they are used differently and have different meanings, but NO dictionary would list "lavar" and "lavarse" as different verbs, as their syntax and meaning are 100% the same. There are a few pairs of verbs, one with and another one without pronoun, that are just simply different verbs.
The Spanish Academy does not list pronominal and non-pronominal counterparts separately,
This reflexive pronoun ("se") has a long list of possible uses, like forming the passive form: "construirse" doesn't mean that something builts itself, but something is "being built", so it is a passive usage, not a reflexive one, so talking about this verb as reflexive would be rather silly. "Se decidió" doesn't mean that anything decided itself, but something was decided, and the same with other thousands of verbs.
There are other uses, like indicating that the action just happens on its own, not because someone or something makes it happen. For example, "secar" means "to dry", but "secarse" means "to get dry" (you can also say "to dry" here, but that doesn't clarify what I'm saying). "Romper" means to break, but "romperse" means "to get broken" (yes, you can say "to break" here too). While English generally does not change the verb at all in these cases, in Spanish you have to clarify this with the reflexive pronoun.
Just to make things more complicated, this "se" can be added just to add some extremely subtly nuances that are difficult to translate, but sound different to native ears. "Comer" is "to eat", and "comerse" is roughly "to eat up", for example.
Yes, this "se" is awfully complex, and bad terminology and rubbish descriptions don't help much. If I were you, and I was uncertain about a particular verb with pronoun, I would ask native speakers to provide you with several sentences exploring what sounds right and what doesn't, and whether dropping the pronoun makes any significant difference, and just assimilate it, rather than having a headache with unnecessary grammar details. Always ask for full, natural sentences, and repeat them aloud, while noticing patterns, rather than complex explanations.
First of all, it is more common nowadays to refer to verbs with the -se ending as pronominal verbs. The word "pronominal" comes from "pronoun". Simply put, a pronominal verb requires a pronoun when it is used, either me, te, se, nos, or os.
It is generally best to think of them as separate verbs. Many have a close relationship to the non-pronominal form of the verb, but many do not.
One misconception is that there are only two forms of pronominal verbs - they are either reflexive or reciprocal. This is not true.
There are several other uses of pronominal verbs including:
Intensifying the action:
Me comí el pastel entero.
I ate the whole cake!
Turning a transitive verb (one that requires a direct object) into an intransitive verb:
Se hundió el barco.
The boat sank.
It is best not to think, in this case, "the boat sank itself" We are just saying the boat sank. We might not be interested right now in who sank the boat or why it sank or when it sank, although some of this information could be added. Note that in English, the verb "sank" CAN be used intransitively. Many non-pronominal Spanish verbs cannot and using the pronominal version is a very common way to provide an intransitive structure.
There are still other functions of pronominal verbs, but since I think the main question is well-answered I won't go into them here.
Another problem beginning Spanish students can encounter is assuming that if they see "se" in a sentence, that a pronominal verb is being used - and the real beginners jump to the conclusion that a "reflexive verb" is being used.
Unfortunately for Spanish learners (in my opinion) the little word "se" has several uses which have nothing to do with pronominal verbs. To complicate things further, the word sé (with an accent) also exists and sounds identical to "se" without the accent.
Here is a humorous video by a Spanish teacher on the "impressive use" of "se."
I think it is a mix, but I am not a native speaker. Lavarse just means to wash yourself but other verbs like irse, hacerse and quedarse have a new meaning when reflexive. I do not know if there is a distinctive term for this, so I hope you get more answers.
