Home
Q&A
Is there more than one way to look at this?

Is there more than one way to look at this?

6
votes

A sentence that I posted earlier today sparked a conversation between my husband and I and we are still not sure what the answer is...

In English, the sentence was "Two homeruns in the same game by Willson Contreras livened up the crowd at Wrigley Field today.

I originally wrote Dos jonrones en el mismo juego por Willson Contreras amenizó a la multitud en Wrigley Field hoy. (I thought that I was putting the emphasis on the crowd, which became enlivened, so I chose the singular.)

But the correction pointed out that I should have said

Dos jonrones en el mismo juego por Willson Contrares amenizaron a la multitud en Wrigley Field hoy. (That, I suppose, puts the emphasis on the homeruns which caused the crowd to become enlivened, and homeruns are plural.)

My question is this....can it go either way, depending on what you want to emphasize, or is there only one possibility here, and it has to be plural because if you take out the middle part you get ...Dos jonrones amenizaron....

857 views
updated Aug 9, 2017
edited by Echoline
posted by Echoline
It's "my husband and I" not "my husband and myself". - NKM1974, Aug 8, 2017
You are correct :-) - Echoline, Aug 8, 2017
Go Cubbies. I wish I had husband to cheer them on with. :) - Sassette, Aug 8, 2017
Sorry I didn't know it was about how to use the word amenizar. - polenta1, Aug 8, 2017
For me it would agree with plural. - polenta1, Aug 8, 2017
It's actually "between my husband and me." - Winkfish, Aug 8, 2017
Yeppers, Wink is right. :) - rac1, Aug 8, 2017
@Echoline, your entry Contreras' name should be spelled correctly. http://www.spanishdict.com/answers/295292/la-palabra-del-da-amenizar - NKM1974, Aug 8, 2017
done. I was so busy focusing on his alternative first name spelling that I transposed the vowels and didnt even notice it - Echoline, Aug 8, 2017

5 Answers

7
votes

Are you sure the verb should be "amenizar"?

I'll try to give you examples that sound good with "amenizar".

La banda de rock amenizó la velada con media hora de actuación.

Juan amenizó la fiesta con su sarta de chistes graciosos.

El pianista y su hermana, la cantante, amenizaron la función.

El payaso amenizó la noche y generó sonrisas en los concurrentes.

This is the way I've always heard the verb "amenizar". Let's see what others have to say.

A very common collocation could be "enardecieron a la multitud" but I think it's too much to just say"liven up".

Maybe we could say something like: .......... hicieron salir del desánimo a la multitud.
.......... despertaron a la multitud
......... hicieron salir del letargo a la multitud
........ despertaron del letargo a la multitud
........ avivaron a la multitud (I personally don't like this one)
........ reavivaron a la multitud.

I would like to hear other people especially native speakers.

updated Aug 9, 2017
edited by polenta1
posted by polenta1
Polenta: I agree, it isn't my first choice of verb. I was focused on Echo's question which dealt more with how to shift the focus / emphasis to the audience. How did I do in that regard? - DilKen, Aug 8, 2017
Thank you so much, polenta. Thank you for the additional examples. The shade of this word must be a little different than what I had thought. - Echoline, Aug 9, 2017
7
votes

I agree that the original sentence was incorrect, the subject of this sentence is the home runs, the direct object is the crowd. Regarding the question: Can this be said in another way? Yes, almost always. smile I'll show a couple of options and I look forward to possible corrections and options from other members.

Original corrected sentence:
Dos jonrones en el mismo juego por Willson Contrares amenizaron a la multitud en Wrigley Field hoy.

Using se passive:
Hoy la multitud en Wrigley se amenizó cuando Wilson Contrares bateó dos jonrones en el mismo juego.

Today, the crowd at Wrigley field got excited when Wilson Contrares hit two home runs in the same game.

I bolded these sentences, because they are my favorites to to express what I think Echoline is trying to emphasize. By the way, passive sometime connotes "boring / ho-hum" I think this is an unfortunate interpretation of the passive as, to me, it can often provide a more exciting and elegant way of expression than the active voice. In the same way as the word "got" in English has a certain punch at times.

Using se passive, swapping the first and second clauses:
Cuando Wilson Contrares bateó dos jonrones en el mismo juego hoy, la multitud en Wrigley se amenizó.

To me, the original corrected sentence is more matter of fact...this is what happened and the crowd was enlivened / got excited.

Putting the clause with the crowd "getting excited" first puts more emphasis on the fact that the crowd was livened up and then it explains what made this happen. I think it creates more tension. OK the crowd got excited...why????

The third sentence with the clauses switched seems similar to the original, but perhaps puts more emphasis on the crowd getting livened up than the original sentence because the verb is conjugated according to the crowd, rather than according to the two home runs. To me is also seems a little more dynamic because of the use of batear (hit / batted) rather than just mentioning that they happened by using "two homes runs" as the main subject of the sentence.

In both of the passive se sentences I put the crowd before the verb. I think it is possible to put the se + verb before the crowd in both sentences. You can be the judge regarding any shade of meaning putting the crowd before or after the verb might provide.

I am not a native speaker so I look forward to corrections to my Spanish and comments regarding my interpretation of emphasis.

P.S. The main reason I went with cuando in my revised sentences, instead of using "por / by" is that I believe there is a general prohibition against using por...simply mentioning the agent when using passive se. As is turns out, I like using cuando instead because I was easily able to insert the active verb batear.

updated Aug 8, 2017
edited by DilKen
posted by DilKen
Thank you so much, Ken. Yes, I should have used the se plus verb....that would have taken the emphasis off of the homeruns and put it on the crowd. - Echoline, Aug 8, 2017
Echo: Glad you like it. It was fun to take on your challenge :) I hope I'm right...but if I'm not I'll learn something so it's all good. :) - DilKen, Aug 8, 2017
Yes, I think the use of se makes it always better. You are a good analyst. - polenta1, Aug 8, 2017
5
votes

polenta1 Are you sure the verb should be "amenizar"?

Fully agree with Polenta here. As soon as I saw "amenizar", it all looked very strange to me.

I think that DilKen's very detailed answer leads in the right direction: complex sentences like the given example cannot be translated directly, they must be interpreted - and the choice of verb is an important element.

My take on that sentence would be something like:

"Dos jonrones de Willson Contreras en el mismo juego deleitaron a la multitud de hoy en el estadio Wrigley" (Note the correction in the spelling of Contrera's name, btw).

In any event, I think the original sentence is wordy and awkward. I'd write something a bit tighter: "Wilson Contreras thrilled the crowd at the Wrigley by hitting two home runs today", or some such.

updated Aug 8, 2017
edited by Echoline
posted by Gekkosan
Gekko: I think that is a great verb. What is your take on my alternative structures (especially the bolded one) to increase emphasis on the excitement of the crowd. I think that is what Echo is most interested in. - DilKen, Aug 8, 2017
Gekko, as a Cub fan I can promise you that he spells his name Willson! - Echoline, Aug 8, 2017
Nonetheless, I certainly appreciate the Spanish improvement! - Echoline, Aug 8, 2017
Me gusta deleitaron a la multitud. - polenta1, Aug 8, 2017
It's not the first name that's mispelled, but his last name: It's "Contreras", not "Contrares" - Gekkosan, Aug 8, 2017
DilKen, I think your alternative construction is fine, which is why I referenced your post. I just think the original "amenizar" verb makes the sentence feel very unnatural. - Gekkosan, Aug 8, 2017
Thank Gekko, I'm encouraged that both you are Polenta think I did well :) - DilKen, Aug 8, 2017
You are right about the spelling of Contreras. That is my doctor's last name. jeje But really it's just like he spells it. :) - rac1, Aug 8, 2017
4
votes

Hi everybody, this thread is based on the WOTD.

The given verb was "amenizar", that's why Echoline used it and I didn't change it.

I definitely agree, deleitar, avivar, or for example, poner de pie...would have been better.

updated Aug 8, 2017
posted by 006595c6
Me gusta "pusieron de pie" y la verdad es que no sabía que era del TWOTD. - polenta1, Aug 8, 2017
Yeah, I realized that afterwards, and it is the same issue as with the other WOTD thread that we discussed, that also had an odd choice of words. - Gekkosan, Aug 8, 2017
I'm glad I'm not the writer of these words and sentences. lol It comes straight from someone at SD. :) - rac1, Aug 8, 2017
2
votes

Hi everybody, this thread is based on the WOTD.

The given verb was "amenizar", that's why Echoline used it and I didn't change it.

I think that part of the learning process, is gaining an understanding of vocabulary that allows us to realize that certain choices just don't make a whole lot of sense in our target language, or they just don't sound natural.

I had a similar problem with the Picture of the Day thread about the chicken and the tigers today, for example. Everyone knows what "hang time" or "air time" is in basketball. The joke was easy and obvious in English. It was very difficult to come up with the Spanish version, because (I was surprised to discover), there's no widely accepted equivalent expression in Spanish.

In short, then, learning a different language is more than learning grammar and structures, it is also about learning context-appropriate vocabulary, cultural references, slang, and many other important nuances.

updated Aug 9, 2017
posted by Gekkosan
Yes, I agree with that. :) - rac1, Aug 8, 2017
Thank you. I believe you and polenta and Heidi when you say the word does not sound "right" but I do not understand why it doesn't. What shade am I missing? I was trying to say that the crowd was sitting around like bumps on a log until those runs.... - Echoline, Aug 8, 2017
...then the place really livened up. I don't see how this is different than a band livening up a party. - Echoline, Aug 8, 2017
nice gekko, como siempre muy certero - 006595c6, Aug 9, 2017
Echo, please look a Polenta's answer, where she offers appropriate uses for "amenizar". This word is generally used to refer to light entertainment, the sort of thing a piano player does in a bar, or the activities host does in a cruise. - Gekkosan, Aug 9, 2017
A player hitting a couple of HR's may thrill a baseball crowd, or excite it, delight it, drive it nuts, or maybe even "liven it up" if it was a boring game to that point. But it's unlikely that you'd say that he animated or entertained the crowd... - Gekkosan, Aug 9, 2017
...unless you're feeling particularly British that day. - Gekkosan, Aug 9, 2017
Thank you, Oh great green one! :-) - Echoline, Aug 9, 2017