Hasta vs no...hasta

Question

I'm in Mexico and amazingly I've learned that:

Puedo jugar hasta las 9

and

No puedo jugar hasta las 9

mean the same thing. (I can't play until 9)

More confusing, if you're already playing, "puedo jugar hasta las 9" means you can play until 9 (and then have to stop).

I've asked several Mexicans about this and they say yes, the first two are identical, and yes the third statement is true.

They've described very slight differences in how the sentences are constructed in order to clarify what you mean, but I haven't been able to get the hang of it.

Can anyone here explain it?

Thanks!

welcome to the forum, :) - 006595c6, Jul 26, 2017

Gracias Heidita! - paulolivetti, Jul 27, 2017

Answer 1

Puedo jugar hasta las 9

and

No puedo jugar hasta las 9

Ok, I am a native speaker.

If I see these sentences I would assume that:

I can play until 9.

and

I cannot play until 9.

I haven't got a clue what your Mexican friends are talking about

That was my feeling exactly. Here, they seem to almost never say "no puedo jugar hasta las 9" and instead nearly always shorten it to "puedo hasta las 9". I see it almost every day on my WhatsApp chats jajaja. Weirdness. - paulolivetti, Jul 26, 2017

Answer 2

I'm with Heidi, but I did find this in the SpanishDict dictionary:

5 (Centroamérica) (Col) (México) not ... until; not ... till
hasta mañana viene - he's not coming until o till tomorrow;
lo hizo hasta el martes - he didn't do it until o till Tuesday;

So it seems it can be used this way in Central America without having to make the verb negative. It seems very confusing, but I suppose context would determine which usage was intended.

Fascinating. Yes, it confuses the heck out of me! But they seem to understand each other perfectly. When I asked how to say "I can play until 9" the answer was "tengo que parar a las 9" jaja - paulolivetti, Jul 26, 2017

Makes me wonder if some Mexicans are deliberately trying to develop expressions to confuse the 'Gringos ' who visit their country or listen to their conversations! It;s just a pity that they confuse lots of native Spanish speakers /hispanohablantes at - FELIZ77, Jul 26, 2017

at the same time! - FELIZ77, Jul 26, 2017

Maybe Feliz. Although I guess context would make the intended meaning clear. Or clearer at least :) - jellonz, Jul 26, 2017

Answer 3

I have always known Mexicans and maybe others have a problem with that. In the South Cone we say it similar to English.

Puedo jugar hasta las 4.
Now it's 2 o'clock and I can still play for two hours until it's 4.

No puedo jugar hasta las 4. Now it's 2 o'clock and I'm busy with other things so that I can begin playing at 4.

I wonder if that happens only in Mexico. It's confusing for us too.

Answer 4

I'd love it if a Mexican would chirp in and explain how to say "I can play till 9"

Answer 5

I am not a Mexican, but I think any of the following would be understood. Who knows though, that's crazy that two sentences, one with a no and one without can mean the same thing.

I just made up the 6 o'clock thing because poster said once you're playing, then hasta is unambiguous. So I just picked a random time to start so I could use hasta with the meaning of until.

Puedo jugar a las seis pero tengo que parar a las nueve.

I can play at six but I have to stop at nine.

Puedo jugar desde las seis hasta las nueve.

I can play from 6 until 9.

Puedo jugar de las seis a las nueve.

I can play from from 6 to 9.

Please correct my Spanish if necessary.

a las nueva.....desde las seis hasta las nueve, - 006595c6, Jul 27, 2017

Thanks Heidita, careless mistake :( - DilKen, Jul 27, 2017

Answer 6

I've noticed that in general Mexicans (compared to the Spanish, for example) tend to find any way to shorten things they can. This may be an example of that, dunno.