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second and third person mixed? phrase from "a mi burro"

second and third person mixed? phrase from "a mi burro"

1
vote

El médico le manda que se lave la cara.

or

El médico le manda

Que se lave la cara.

I am actually not sure if these belong in one sentence or not. It is a nursery rhyme so the grammar may not be exactly proper. But in either case, the doctor is giving the donkey medical assistance. It seems like this phase should translate...

"The doctor commands him that 'you wash your face'."

"El médico le manda" - The doctor commands him - third person

"lave" - wash - usted imperative, second-person

"se" - usted reflexive pronoun, second-person

Google translate offers "The doctor tells him to wash his face". Is there some grammar rule involving "que" in this case that dictates "to wash his face" instead of "you wash your face". I feel like my translation is more accurate, but could be wrong. I am curious what you come up with. Thank you

527 views
updated Jul 25, 2017
edited by Joe1242
posted by Joe1242

3 Answers

3
votes

Why do you decide that "le" cannot be usted, but that "se" and "lave" can be, and actually I would say "lave" here is subjunctive, not imperative- in essence an indirect command.

Look at this chart:

Jehle pronouns

le is the indirect object pronoun for usted.

If it was a direct command the reflexive command would be "lávese"

In positive commands the pronouns are attached.

(so the whole thing could be second person formal or third person, but it is consistent).

updated Jul 25, 2017
edited by bosquederoble
posted by bosquederoble
I just finished my edits. I wanted to make it as simple as possible. - Daniela2041, Jul 24, 2017
Can you offer an English translation as if it were the subjunctive? - Joe1242, Jul 24, 2017
The doctor orders you to wash your face- or the doctor orders him to wash his face- in normal English. - bosquederoble, Jul 24, 2017
In English subjunctive, not normally used- the doctor orders (your) that you wash your face. - bosquederoble, Jul 24, 2017
4
votes

I may be wrong as to the name of the rule, I think it's called "Indirect command" Like when someone is telling you what another person told someone else to do.

I would translate it simply as "The doctor told him to wash his face."

Don't worry about the "que" here it merely introduces the subjoined phrase.

If there were a "direct quote" here it would go something like this with quotation marks.

El doctor le mandó "¡Lávese la cara! or the more familiar. "¡Lávate la cara.!"

(English) The doctor told him, "Wash your face!"

Mandar usually means to command or demand, but I didn't give a direct translation, because in normal Dr. to patient speech, English speakers wouldn't say it that way.

That would sound more like a drill sergeant commanding a private.

updated Jul 24, 2017
edited by Daniela2041
posted by Daniela2041
I think we were answering at the same time. :) - bosquederoble, Jul 24, 2017
I agree totally that there's no need to worry about the "que" or translate "mandar" directly since it doesn't sound natural in English... - alba3, Jul 24, 2017
...but isn't the original "le manda" instead of "le mandó"? Wouldn't it be "The doctor tells him..."? - alba3, Jul 24, 2017
Yes, that's right. I did not read it carefully. I put it down the way I would say it, instead of the way the author did. Sorry. - Daniela2041, Jul 24, 2017
3
votes

Daniela's and Bosque's answers were perfect in my opinion.

I just thought it would be interesting to note that there is another, fairly similar usage, of mandar which requires the direct object "lo" instead of the indirect object "le" for him.

In the below examples, the person is being sent to do something. In this case, the person is the direct object of the verb mandar...the "thing" that is actually or figuratively being sent.

Here are three examples from the SD Dictionary.

Lo mandé a comprar pan.
I sent him (out) for bread o to buy some bread;

Lo mandé a por el periódico.
I sent him (out) for the paper o to buy the paper

Lo mandaron como representante de la empresa.
He was sent to represent the company; he was sent as the company's representative;

For even more enlightenment on the difference between these two uses of mandar, some intermediate - advanced learners may want to read what the RAE has to say about this.

mandar. 1. Como transitivo, se construye de formas diversas según su significado: a) Con el sentido de ‘dar la orden [de hacer algo]’, el complemento directo es normalmente un infinitivo o una oración subordinada introducida por que: «Mandó construir una choza de cañas para encerrar a los borrachos» (Sepúlveda Viejo [Chile 1989]); «Mi capitán me mandó que se lo dijera» (Gamboa Páginas [Col. 1998]). Si se hace explícita la persona que recibe la orden, esta se expresa mediante un complemento indirecto (? leísmo, 4b): «Le mandó que se deshiciera de los perros» (Donoso Casa [Chile 1978]).

b) También significa ‘enviar [a alguien] a un lugar o remitir [algo] a alguien’: «Llamó a uno de sus hijos y lo mandó a casa de José Govea» (Elizondo Setenta [Méx. 1987]); «¿Por qué no le mandas la carta al ministro de Agricultura?» (Bayly Días [Perú 1996]). Con el sentido específico de ‘enviar [a alguien] a que haga algo’, además del complemento directo de persona, lleva un infinitivo o una subordinada introducida por que, precedidos, en este caso, de la preposición a: «Pere quería que su hijo fuera un perfecto caballero y lo mandó a estudiar a Oxford» (Mendoza Verdad [Esp. 1975]); «Ella lo mandó a que fuera en busca de un quinqué» (Montero Trenza [Cuba 1987]).

En el español de España se mantiene la distinción entre ambos sentidos, de manera que cuando mandar significa ‘ordenar [hacer algo]’, el infinitivo o la subordinada con que no van precedidos de la preposición a, mientras que esta preposición es obligatoria cuando mandar significa ‘enviar [a alguien] a que haga algo’: Le mandaron estudiar [= le ordenaron que estudiara] y Lo mandaron a estudiar [= lo enviaron a algún lugar para que estudiara]. En el español de América, sin embargo, se cruzan ambas construcciones, de manera que también con el sentido de ‘ordenar’ aparece frecuentemente la preposición a ante el infinitivo o la subordinada con que: «Mandó a construir debajo del mango una percha con un recipiente para el agua» (GaMárquez Amor [Col. 1985]); «El viejo mandó a que la degollaran allí mismo» (Barnet Gallego [Cuba 1981]); «Primero se negó a recibirlo, pero después lo mandó a llamar» (UPietri Visita [Ven. 1990]); en España se diría Mandó construir, mandó que la degollaran y lo mandó llamar.

  1. mandar(se) (a) cambiar, mandar(se) (a) mudar. En el español coloquial de varios países americanos, especialmente de América del Sur, se emplean estas expresiones con el significado de ‘echar [a alguien] de un lugar’: «Con los peones nunca había problema, porque si uno se ponía liso, yo lo mandaba mudar y ya» (Bayly Días [Perú 1996]); y, como pronominal, ‘irse de un lugar’: «Estuve a punto de agarrar a patadas el tablero, abrir la portezuela y mandarme a cambiar» (Edwards Anfitrión [Chile 1987]).

Diccionario panhispánico de dudas ©2005 Real Academia Española © Todos los derechos reservados

updated Jul 25, 2017
edited by DilKen
posted by DilKen
I have the very same book,but published in 1961. Prólogo de Salvador Fernández Ramírez - DonBigoteDeLaLancha, Jul 24, 2017
This happens often when a verb (or any kind of word) has more than one meaning. Think of the English word "spring." - Daniela2041, Jul 24, 2017
Dani: Yes, both in English and Spanish. I recently analyzed the many uses of pasar and learned a lot about how different meanings can be distinguished with different features of the verb. - DilKen, Jul 24, 2017