Can present subjunctive be used after verbs in the conditional + que + two subjects?

Question

I wouldn't say is more common. I'd say they are not exactly the same. To me, "ojalá" is stronger. Think about these two: "ojalá que llueva" and "me gustaría que llueva". Don't you think that the former is expressing a stronger wish? - Guillermo_O 1 day ago flag

@Guillermo_O thank you. if you don't mind me asking, why is "llueva" in the present tense after "me gustaría"? I've been struggling a bit with the distinctions and uses between past and present subj. - Estudiante77 1 day ago flag

That's how it's used to express hope. Look here: http://www.elsubjuntivo.com/usos.html - Guillermo_O 1 day ago flag.

The above exchange makes me wonder. Is it ever correct to use the present subjunctive after que with gustaria or quisiera in the main clause? Unless this was a "slip of the keyboard" it seems to me that Guillermo is saying that it is.

I also checked the link that Guillermo provided and did not see a single case of using gustaría with the present subjunctive. Maybe I looked in the wrong place.

Using the present subjunctive with the conditional is contrary to several sources that I have checked....Butt & Benjamin, IFPW - Jehle, Lengalia.com and others who all say that the imperfect past subjunctive should be used with a conditional verb in the main clause.

If a lot of Spanish speakers do this (use present subjunctive with the conditional), at least in some parts of the world, I have a theory/guess, which I will explain below, why they might do this.

My theory: In English, we use "I would like" in many, many ways, just to be extra polite, that are not actually expressing anything conditionally. In Spanish, I believe gustaría and quisiera are often used in the same way.,..nothing conditional is really being expressed...it is just seen as a more polite way of saying "quiero." Therefore, when they use gustaría or quisiera for politeness, but are really referring to something in the future, that is quite probable, maybe they use the present subjunctive as if they had said "quiero." (even though this technically goes against the rules of most grammarians.)

Here is a what Lengalia.com says about the issue. (They are from Spain, and I have been very impressed with their grammar articles.) The last item, which I have bolded, addresses the use of a wish / want + que with the main verb in the conditional.

Use the imperfect subjunctive:

When the main verb shows doubt, a wish or an emotion, etc.

Te mandó que te pusieras los zapatos.
He ordered you to put on your shoes.

Les prohibían a los niños que salieran solos.
They prohibited the boys from going out on their own.

Me había pedido que lo llamara esta mañana.
He had asked me to call him this morning.

Me gustaría que hiciera buen tiempo mañana.
(Acción futura, indica futuro si lo usamos con condicional simple y que.)
I would like it to be good weather tomorrow.
(Future action, indicates future if we use it with the Conditional Simple and que.)

After ojalá (que). Shows a wish about an improbable future situation.

¡Ojalá que Juan viniera hoy! (Deseo que Juan venga, pero yo sé que no vendrá.)
I wish that Juan was coming today! (I want Juan to come, but I know that he isn't coming.)

¡Ojalá tuviera dinero! (Deseo tener dinero, pero no lo tengo.)
If only I had money! (I want to have money but I don't have any.)

=============================================================

By the way, I believe ojalá is very flexible in this regard. Since is not a verb, it doesn't have any verb tenses. Therefore, it can be used with the present subjunctive for future, somewhat probable events, as well as with imperfect subjunctive for improbable future events, or to express a desire that something didn't happen in the past. Am I right about all this? I'm not very sure about using it for the last use, referring to something in the past.

E.G. I wish I had studied Spanish in college.
Ojalá hubiera estudiado español en la universidad.

Is this OK?

Answer 1

I'm not a expert in technicalities. I just have read hundreds of books and spoken Spanish all my life and I'm very familiar with regular uses.

I can say that to me both are perfectly acceptable and no native speaker will correct you in a conversation or look at you as if you were making a mistake if you say it either way.

Technically incorrect? I'm not sure. If we had Lazarus here (a former member and Spanish geek) I'm pretty sure he might be able to say if it's wrong with a detailed explanation. I don't have the technical knowledge to do it.

Thank you Guillermo. And I hope that you don't mind that I quoted your post in mine. When I search for gustaría que on context.reverso.net I found some of each. Maybe 90 past tense and 10% present. - DilKen, Jun 28, 2017

This is a case where it is very possible that Latin American Spanish differs from Spanish, and if that's the case, I'd like to hear about it. - DilKen, Jun 28, 2017

And what did you think of my hypothesis that gustaría is often just used as a polite way to say quiero (in some regions at least) and that might explain why the present subjunctive is sometimes used? - DilKen, Jun 28, 2017

Guillermo: just out of curiosity I found 6 example of gustaría que on the link you provided and I got 100% correct by using the imperfect subjunctive. - DilKen, Jun 28, 2017

Just so there is no understanding, I'm not trying to say that present subjunctive is wrong, just that I've been corrected on this before, and I'm trying to learn if it is acceptable O R widely used and where. Gracias. - DilKen, Jun 28, 2017

You may be right about "me gustaria" being a polite way to say "quiero". At least that's what I would mean when I say it. - 00fac92a, Jun 28, 2017

Thanks Guillermo. Also, many times there is an Implied condition. I will (would) like it if it rains. For a somewhat likely event, according to the grammarians, the future should be used in both languages, but use of the conditional is very common. - DilKen, Jun 28, 2017

What tense would you use in the subjunctive for a very unlikely future event? I would like to go to the moon someday. - DilKen, Jun 28, 2017

I'd say "me gustaría ir a la luna algún día". - 00fac92a, Jun 28, 2017

Guillermo. My mistake, I meant to trigger the subjunctive with two subjects. How about: I would like my grandson to go to Mars someday. - DilKen, Jun 28, 2017

Nor I've been influenced by this thread. I'd say "Me gustaria que mi nieto fuera a la luna algún día" but before this thread I would probably used "vaya" instead. - 00fac92a, Jun 28, 2017

Guillermo: I can understand how this stuff can play with the brain:) Thanks again for your anwser and comments. I really learned a lot today. So, you wouldn't want your grandson to go to Mars...just the moon? :) - DilKen, Jun 28, 2017

For some reason I got moon in my head. Anyway, it's a lot safer than Mars so far. :) - 00fac92a, Jun 29, 2017

Answer 2

I don't know much about grammar but as a native speaker I don't see anything wrong with saying "me gustaría que llueva". If I'm watching a race and my friend is running, I could say "ojalá/me gustaría que gane".

Whether is grammatical or ungrammatical, people use it. Nowadays the RAE seems to be accepting what people use more and more (sometimes they accept things that I deem ridiculous) but if you really want to know and if no one here is able to give an explanation, a good place to ask is the fundeu. If you go to their website, on the left there's a little sign that says "¿Tienes una duda? Consúltanos"

http://www.fundeu.es/

Thanks Clevine. From your answer &Guillermo;'s I'm convinced that it is widely used in spite of what grammar books might say. I really appreciate the input since I am trying to learn about the real world as well as "the rules" Gracias :) - DilKen, Jun 28, 2017

Clevine. Would you mind telling me what country you a from or where you learned Spanish? - DilKen, Jun 28, 2017

And thanks for the link. I posted my question there. Let's see what I get back:) - DilKen, Jun 28, 2017