Use of redundant indirect object pronouns

Question

Normally we are taught that it is more usual, although not strictly required, to add an indirect object pronoun when an indirect object follows a verb. Which is something I periodically forget in actual practice.

In the following Duolingo exercise I normally have success putting:

Mi hermano quiere añadir algunos insectos a su colección.

But today it occurred to me that algunos insectos was the direct object, and su colección the indirect, so I tried:

Mi hermano quiere añadirle algunos insectos a su colección.

Which was considered incorrect:

My brother wants to add some insects to his collection.

Mi hermano quiere agregar algunos insectos a su colección.

A quick look around shows añadir is not normally associated with an indirect object pronoun in most cases.

So although I would say:

Quiero darle (or le quiero dar) algo a mi hermano.

It seems I am supposed to say:

Quiero añadir algo a la mezcla.

Questions:

1 Is it incorrect or unnatural to include the le here?

2 Why is añadir functioning differently than dar (or decir, etc.) and if not obvious from the answer, when else might that come into play? (is it based on the verb, or the fact that the indirect object is inanimate?)

3 In the setting of a situation where the indirect object precedes the verb, which normally requires the pronoun, would it then be appropriate/required?

A su colección mi hermano (le) quiere añadir algunos insectos.

4 If you had a pre-existing referent and dropped the noun, would you use le?

Mi hermano tiene una buena colección de arañas. Quiere añadir(le) algunos insectos.

I only use the word redundant, as that is how they are often described by English speaking learners, and recognize that to Spanish speakers our necessary use of "it" as a "redundant" subject placeholder is equally challenging. :) - bosquederoble, Jun 24, 2017

Answer 1

This is a very good question (I had to make some research to make sure what I thought was correct). It is perfectly natural and correct to add the "le" there. Also not to do it. In other words, it is optional. It is also optional to add "le" in sentences like "La academia dio un premio al actor" or "la academia le dio un premio al actor" (even if it is more common to add "le").

Considering this, the fact that duolingo consideres incorrect "añadirle" but correct "darle" is quite arbitrary.

The only cases where "le" is mandatory is when the subject is pospone (Al actor le dio un premio la academia) and when the duplication involves a prepositional pronoun (and not the actual noun that it is referring to): La academia le dio un premio a él (in this case, the le is mandatory).

I hope this is clear enough.

Yes, that was my understanding- is it more usual to use less le with dar, and not use it with añadir/agregar or is there not preference? Not by the rules (which I know)- but in how you personally would naturally speak? - bosquederoble, Jun 24, 2017

The is no way to establish that, at least not as a simple answer. It may vary from country to country, region and social classes. Personally, I would use both indistinctly. - Shamelesspanish, Jun 25, 2017

Thanks, that helps. :) - bosquederoble, Jun 25, 2017

Answer 2

Hi bosque, I agree with shameless, good question

So although I would say:

Quiero darle (or le quiero dar) algo a mi hermano.

We are talking about a person here...this is called a redundant object pronoun.

Have a look at this thread. Izanoni was one of the superstars here, his answer is very clear and superb.

pronouns

Please click on the link supplied by Pesta, did you know that there is a reference section here on the site?

And look at this thread , too.

Lazarus was the best grammar specialist we ever had.

redundant object pronouns

My brother wants to add some insects to his collection.

Mi hermano quiere agregar algunos insectos a su colección.

So my question still is: would you be more likely to say: "Quiero añadir algo a la mezcla" or "le quiero añadir algo a la mezcla?" - bosquederoble, Jun 24, 2017

We have already established (as I previously suspected) that both are allowed by grammar rules. What I am looking for is do most people choose one or the other? :) - bosquederoble, Jun 24, 2017