Pronominal verbs vs intransistive with the same translation
I cant understand the differnce between pronominal verbs and intransistive verbs which have the same translation in english For example: Escapar - escaparse Reir - reirse Estacionar - estacionarse Rehusar - rehusar. All these exaples are translated to the same word in english, and most of the time i found that they have diffrent manners of use. Can someone please explain me thoroughly the diffrence between them (in general not the specific exaples) and how do they are used. Thank you all
4 Answers
Los verbos pronominales son aquellos en los que la acción del sujeto repercute en si mismo. Puede tratarse de verbos transitivos o intransitivos.
Con los verbos transitivos la acción parte del sujeto para exteriorizarse y repercutir en el propio sujeto. La acción es visible y contrastable por un segundo observador. Por ejemplo: Maria se pinta las uñas = Maria pinta sus uñas. Con los verbos transitivos usar el verbo con su forma pronominal o no , no modifica el sentido de la frase.
Con los verbos intransitivos , la acción parte del sujeto, y sin exteriorizarse, repercute en el sujeto. Un observador podrá deducirlo, pero no contrastarlo al cien por cien. por ejemplo: maria se ha enfadado. el enfado no ha salido de Maria, no ha podido ser observado. sabremos o pensaremos que se ha enfadado por su cambio de actitud.
con los verbos intransitivos el sentido de la frase podría variar poco, mucho o nada o no ser posible dependiendo del verbo usado.
Hay varios casos.
1- verbos pronominales (solo intransitivos). cuya forma no pronominal tiene un sentido distinto o no existe como por ejemplo dormirse , levantarse , apostarse . en éste grupo aparecen los verbos que indican sentimiento como arrepentirse , enamorarse... y un segundo grupo con los verbos de movimiento que al expresarse en su forma pronominal indican comienzo de la acción o su progresión . irse, marcharse. (acaba de irse) tiene que irse ahora.
2-los verbos reflexivos. en los que el sujeto y el complemento del verbo son idénticos, y en los que el uso de la forma pronominal es una opción para economizar lenguaje. Maria se ama = Maria ama a Maria.
3-los reflexivos indirectos en los que el complemento del verbo no coincide con el sujeto y se usan para intensificar el verbo. Maria cayó de un segundo piso cuando tenía 2 años. ¿como? ¡que se cayó de un segundo piso! ¡que horror!.
4- pasiva refleja. muy utilizada en español para hacer oraciones pasivas.
En tu caso veo que solo te interesa el primer apartado pero he querido extenderme por si algún compañero de SD está interesado.= para éste apartado solo te puedo dar el consejo del compañero Dilken, estudiar cada verbo , pues no hay una norma ni regla fija. te aconsejo que busques en internet listados de verbos pronominales y que una vez te apliques en su estudio lo apliques a tu español o lo que es lo mismo. una vez que te esfuerces en su estudio puedas emplearlos en tu español
Reflexive verbs are those in which the action of the subject affects itself. they can be transitive or intransitive verbs.
with transitive verbs the action parts of the subject to externalize and impact on the owun subject. the action is visible and verifiable by a second observer. with transitive verbs the meaning of the sentence is not modified.
with intransitive verbs, the action parts of the subject, not being externalized and impact on the own subject. the action is not visible or verifiable a second observer needs deduce it.
with intransitive verbs the meaning of the sentence colud be modified , very , little , no modified or just not be possile.
1- pronominal verbs (only instransitives) which pronominal form could have a different meaning or doesn´t exist like , dormirse.... there is a group with the verbs that indicate feelings arrepentirse , enamorarse, and other important group with movemnt verbs which their pronominal form indicates the beginning of the movement. irse , marcharse, ...
2-the reflexive verbs. the subject and the verbs complement are the same in which the use of the pronominal form it is only a matter of economy in the language.
3-the indirect reflexives . the subject and the verb complemnt aren´t the same. in this case the pronominal form it is to intensify the action of the verb .
4- pasive. this type of pasive is very used in Spanihs.
I your case i see that you are only interested in the first case but i have extended my explanation just in case a SD mate is interested in. I advice you to follow the Dilken,s advice and to studie each verb cause there is not any rule . look for pronominal verbs with different meaning in internet
Edited.
If i understand you correctly: than between intransistive pronominal and intransistive verbs with the same meaning there is no diffrence, can i replace one with other and the sentence will remain the same? .
No amigo. Creo que me he expresado mal. Dentro de los verbos pronominales hay varios tipos que he enumerado del uno al cuatro al comienzo de mi respuesta. En el caso que me planteas . El número uno, el denominado reflexivo interno o pronominal, solo se da con verbos intransitivos o verbos transitivos que en su forma reflexiva se convierten en intransitivos como por ejemplo levantarse ( intransitivo) levantar ( transitivo). Es en éste apartado donde el significado puede variar mucho poco o nada. Y aquí solo puedo aconsejarte que sigas el consejo de Dilken.
I am not a native Spanish speaker, but I have studied Spanish long enough to know that in some cases there is no discernable difference between a non-promonimal verb and its corresponding pronominal version. This is also stated as a fact in a very good grammar book that I have by Butt & Benjamin. The Spanish speaker simply has a option of using one of the other.
Los ladrones escaparon antes de que pudiera llegar la policía. The thieves escaped before the police were able to arrive.
Dos presos se escaparon de una prisión de máxima seguridad este fin de semana pasado. Two inmates escaped from a maximum security prison this past weekend.
I think, in a case like this, it is just "speakers choice"
In other cases, there is a difference in meaning between the two versions. The difference can be large, small or almost incomprehensible to an English speaker. Butt and Benjamin conclude, that in these cases, there is no alternative to studying the verbs one at a time. I can think of a better alternative, however. Do a lot of reading, be aware of this phenomena and learn the differences in a more enjoyable fashion other than reading a dictionary.
P.S. Other than reflexive, reciprocal and emphasis usages (e.g. comerse) one of the most common reasons for pronominal verbs it to turn an otherwise transitive verb (one which requires a direct object) into an intransitive...sometimes almost passive... construction. This wasn't your question since you asked about intransitive vs pronominal verbs, but I thought I would point this out anyway.
Choose a Spanish verb that you want to learn. There are many lists of the top 100 or 1000 verbs that you can use for ideas on where to start. Or choose Spanish verbs to learn based on the English verbs you use most commonly.
Review the different meanings that both the regular and pronominal versions have in the SD dictionary.
Decide which of these meanings you are most likely to use in your life. This will depend on many things. What subjects you study in school, where you work. What things interest you, etc. Ignore meanings which you are unlikely to use for now. Try to choose at least one regular and one pronominal usage for each verb unless all of the pronominal versions seem too specialized such that you might never use it that way in real life. If you choose sentences from the SD dictionary with a variety of conjugations, tenses and moods and you can kill two birds with one stone. Or, if you feel confident in your ability to write sentences of your own, without any errors, you could do that. This way you can choose nouns, adjectives, prepositions, adverbs and adverbial phrases that you want to learn also. Just make sure there are no errors (you could post here to have them checked) because in the following steps you are going to drill yourself, and you never want to drill/learn something with an error because it can be hard to unlearn.
Cut and paste the English and Spanish sentences with the meanings you want to learn and put them in a spreadsheet where you can read them frequently and/or drill yourself. (by typing them in another column and setting up the simple logic to check if you typed it 100% correct in Spanish)
Alternatively, you might want to use Quizlet or some other flashcard program on the Internet. I like Quizlet for ease of use, ability to upload entire sets in a few minutes from a section of your worksheet, audio in both languages, availability of smart phone versions, multiple testing / learning methods, etc. (and free)
The most demanding method on Quizlet requires you to type the entire sentence correctly, accents and all.Choose another verb and repeat. Keep in mind, that sometimes when you are learning verbs, there may be meanings of either the regular or pronominal forms of a verb that are also covered with other verbs, some of which you may already know. You might want to ignore these for now. The fastest way to be able to be able to communicate is to first learn how to say a variety of things correctly in one way. You can worry about adding variety later.
Start practicing "for real" the use of these verbs by writing from scratch. Upload your writing efforts to SD and ask for someone to check your work. You can upload paragraphs, stories, pretend letters, etc. or simply upload a list of sentences as an exercise. If you're not sure how to write something you can upload two or more alternative sentences and ask for input on which is better, etc. When you post to SD, post both the Spanish and the English. If you use a regular version of a verb where you should only use a pronominal version or vice-versa someone here will notice and point that out in addition to giving you corrections on any other mistakes.
Read and listen a lot to things that interest as you did when you were learning your first language. Very, very important. Find things you enjoy reading, watching and listening to and you will do it a lot and learn much faster.
If 1-6 sound like too much work there are other alternatives. Take classes if you're not already doing so or subscribe to a comprehensive learning site. This way, someone else will have already have decided for you what the most common verbs and verb meanings are that should be learned first. You will only have to augment this if you are studying or working in some specialized field.
My favorite website for this is Lengalia.com where you could easily spend a couple hundred hours learning all the material they have on a variety of topics with text, audio and video. You will just have to supplement this with writing and speaking to achieve a fairly good level of Spanish competency. For the writing practice you can use a combination of steps 1-6 above and making contributions to SD. (#7)
Using Duolingo for practicing the choice of the right verb will probably work as well, at least for the most common verbs.
If you use a non-pronominal verb when a pronominal one must be used (or vice-versa) you will be marked wrong and the question will come up more often for practice.
