How would you say "he was forced to do things that scared him" in Spanish?

Question

How would you say "he was forced to do things that scared him" in Spanish?

Ok, so the full sentence is: "When he was young, his dad made him do things that scared him" and I said: Cuando era niño, su padre lo obligaba a Diego hacer cosas que lo asustaba.

so I'm wondering if this is right - canned, May 9, 2017

You really stirred up something here. - Daniela2041, May 10, 2017

I was forced to say something in Spanish on the Saturday morning "charla " with Heidi , I managed "Sí " , and " no ". - ray76, May 10, 2017

Answer 1

I have read the posts by Dani, Bosque and Don and I thought I would weigh in on the issue of the indicative vs. subjunctive. (primarily to learn something, not because I'm so wise.) (I always learn/remember more by active participation rather than just reading.) Don't most of us?

Obligar is often stated as a trigger verb for the subjunctive. I forced him (that) he do something. A verb of influence. But this means, to me, that that forcing / strong requesting of the thing was done, but the the speaker is not declaring that the thing actually was done.

Note the following in our SD dictionary.

obligar a alguien a hacer algo/a que haga algo - to oblige o force somebody to do something, to make someone do something.

Essentially this says that if any verb is going to be in the subjunctive with conjugated obligar + a + (que?) hacer, it is hacer, which can either be obligar a hacer or obligar a que haga. (With obligar conjugated of course) I think once this horse is out of the barn, the verb in the next clause will be indicative.

In this case, when reporting on the past, the English sentence makes clear that the father forced the son to do things that frightened him (not things that might frighten him or things that would have frightened him if he did them). It is clear, at least to me, that the father did things habitually that he actually did and they frightened him. From the English I have no sense of doubt that the forcing, the doing and the being frightened all happened frequently.

Therefore I agree with where Dani and Bosque on this issue.

Don...the "would" that you mentioned is not a reliable indicator or the proper tense to use in Spanish. Sometimes it can be conditional, sometimes subjunctive and sometimes imperfect indicative.

When you can replace "would" with "used to" with no change of meaning I think it is usually imperfect indicative - and that certainly seems to be case here.

things that would scare him = things that used to scare him = things that scared him

To recap:

One could have the following sentence (forgetting initially about the last clause)

Cuando era joven, su padre lo obligaba a que haga cosas frequentemente.

Here the emphasis is on the forcing. It is unstated whether the son actually did everything that the father forced him to do.

Cuando era joven, su padre lo obligaba a hacer cosas frequentemente.

Here, by using "a hacer" it seems clear that the son actually did these things. (Otherwise why would the option to use the subjunctive exist?)

Now, for my final trick let me try a sentence close to the original with the subjunctive.

Cuando era joven, su padre lo obligaba a que haga cosas que lo asustaban cuando las hacía.

When he was young his father used to force him to do things that used to scare him when he did them.

And finally, if he didn't really do all the things his father forced him to do I would say:

When he was young his father tried to make him do things that were scary.

To me, this could be accomplished by using the subjunctive in Spanish like Don suggested without having having to include tratar de or intentar.

OK, I'm definitely out of my league here. Comments please so I can learn from my mistakes.

Since you are agreeing with me, you might suspect I agree with you. :) - bosquederoble, May 10, 2017

Wonderful! ¡Maravilloso! Estupendo! ¡Impresionante! You would make a good teacher. :) You analyzed why I said what I did then came up with a great alternative. - Daniela2041, May 10, 2017

Now I'm wondering if the OP will even bother to come around a check out this great discussion. - Daniela2041, May 10, 2017

Thanks for your comments Bosque & Dani. And I'm positive that my objective to learn from this exercise has been accomplished. Que tengan una buena noche ustedes :) - DilKen, May 10, 2017

Dani: regarding the original poster, I try not to care about that so much, I try to help them but I'm always thinking about other members who can learn and whether or not I'm learning anything as well :) - DilKen, May 10, 2017

That's the way I look at it too. As long as people are commenting they are engaging and learning. - Daniela2041, May 10, 2017

Answer 2

Daniela wrote: Cuando era joven, su padre lo obligaba a hacer cosas que lo asustaba.

Don Bigote wrote:"Cuando era joven, su padre lo obligó a hacer cosas que lo asustaran."

My vote, and both the above know more Spanish than I:

"Cuando era joven, su padre lo obligaba a hacer cosas que lo asustaban."

If you want Diego:

"Cuando era joven, su padre obligaba a Diego a hacer cosas que lo asustaban."

I suspect the father used to make him do the things, would make him do things, I am guessing it is repetitive and not a single instance. The English could be interpreted either way, and obligó would be correct if it all happened in one fell swoop.

There were actual things, plural. I see no call for subjunctive, subjunctive would apply to hacer if it were not infinitive. Imperfect as they used to scare him, were scary to him. But not the clause after. I suspect it was just an oversite on Daniela's answer to use the singular.

If you add a Diego, you drop lo, as it is direct, not indirect, and so not normally duplicated.

Cuando era niño would sound okay to me if the English were when he was a child.

Just my opinion. Which means little.

I think I meant oversight, not oversite (which I don't think is a word)- but per Daniela's comments I think it was a typo (which is a form of oversight) - bosquederoble, May 9, 2017

Answer 3

I copied your sentence. My suggestion is in bold.

"When he was young, his dad made him do things that scared him" and I said:

Cuando era joven, su padre lo obligaba a hacer cosas que lo asustaban.

My natural tendency is to use "le" obligaba, but a check with the RAE convinced me that "lo" was better. Many of us Spaniards use "le" where Latin Americans use "lo."

A further check on "le" with "obligar" showed me that both ways are popular with "le" being more popular in Spain. Yay! ¡Viva España!

I didn't hit the "n' key for "asustaban" I'll fix it now. - Daniela2041, May 9, 2017

And after some consideration "asustaran" does seem to fit, even though he was frightened time and again over a period of time. - Daniela2041, May 9, 2017

That's right, RAE says "le" is more popular in Spain, so it's interesting that in my personal experience, while in Latin America I was a "le" user, but then during the years a I lived in Spain I was cured of my "le" syndrome haha. - Raff75, May 10, 2017

Answer 4

Discúlpenme.. ¿? I didn't see the Spanish the first time.

"Cuando era joven, su padre lo obligó a hacer cosas que lo asustaran." "When he was young, his father made him do things that frightened him."

"Lo" refers to the joven. I use the preterite in the first clause ((before the "que")because the time period is defined (when he was young). I use the subjunctive in the second clause because it is indefinite. To say "asustaban" would be incorrect because They weren't happening (ie "to do things that were scaring him.".)The idea here is "that it would scare him".

I suspect the Spanish was added after you comment note the edit at 26 minutes with your answer at 34 minutes ago. - bosquederoble, May 9, 2017

Sí, Bosque. Lo noté también. - DonBigoteDeLaLancha, May 9, 2017

That's correct, Bosque. Thanks for pointing that out. - rac1, May 9, 2017

The first clause implies that this was a thing done over and over again. The "asustaran" however does make more sense however. - Daniela2041, May 9, 2017

However, I have re-reconsidered and am firm in "asustaban". The first time that I wrote "asustaba" was a typo. I didn't hit the "n" key hard enough. - Daniela2041, May 9, 2017

My reason for sticking with the indicative is stated below in a comment to don Bigote. - Daniela2041, May 9, 2017

Answer 5

I change my mind, as I'm wont to do. "Obligaba" instead of "obligó" even though it is a defined period of time. It happened and it's done. But, "it was happening" during his youth and, therefore, the imperfect. I still believe the second clause should be subjunctive because it is a "would be" situation.

"When he was young, his dad made him do things that scared him" and I said: Cuando era niño, su padre lo obligaba a Diego hacer cosas que lo asustaba."

My take on it is that "When he was young, his father made Diego do things that were scaring him." I think it should be "that would scare him (asustaran)".

When I wrote "asustaba" and changed to "asustaban" Then I reconsidered and thought that your "asustaran" did make sense. But he did do things over and over during his youth which D I D frighten him. But I need more room to explain. - Daniela2041, May 9, 2017

His father didn't make him do things to frighten someone else, which would require subjunctive.. He did things his father told him to do. These things frightened him. So now I am more firm in my "ausutaban." - Daniela2041, May 9, 2017

"Typo" --"asustaban." - Daniela2041, May 9, 2017

The original "asustaba" was a typo. I didn't hit the "n" key hard enough. - Daniela2041, May 9, 2017

A "Fluencia" debe añadirse "Nuancia". :) - DonBigoteDeLaLancha, May 9, 2017

Answer 6

Canned & Bosquederoble:

All the following collocations are correct, with slight nuances.

1- Cuando era joven, su padre lo obligaba a hacer cosas que lo asustaban.

2- Cuando era joven, su padre le obligaba a hacer cosas que le asustaban.

3- Cuando era joven, su padre lo obligó a hacer cosas que lo asustaran.

4- Cuando era joven, su padre le obligó a hacer cosas que le asustaran.

5- Cuando era joven, su padre lo obligó a hacer cosas que le asustaron.

6- Cuando era joven, su padre lo obligó a hacer cosas que lo asustaron.

7- Cuando era joven, su padre le obligó a hacer cosas que le asustaron.

8- Cuando era joven, su padre lo / le obligó a hacer cosas que lo / le asustarían el resto de su vida.

9- Cuando era joven, su padre lo / le obligaba a hacer cosas que lo / le asustarían el resto de su vida.

---

DonBigote:

"Cuando era joven" can agree with both the preterite and the imperfect depending on what that time expression is for us, 1) a definite moment in time or 2) a period of time.

As for the subjunctive used on examples 3 and 4, it just relocates the emphasis. How? Well, it gives the notion that his father forced him to do things with the specific and planned intention of causing the son to be scared. Here the result is the focus. On examples 1, 2, 5, 6 and 7 the focus is the action and the outcome (the son being scared) is just a consequence.

kenhuizenga:

I agree.

Take a look at

• Cuando era joven yo lo obligaba a que hiciera... (Note: obligaba with hiciera)

• Ahora yo lo obligo a que haga... (Note obligo with haga)

I'd like to mention something interesting: there is a region in Latin America where they use " que haga" in both cases, past and present. It's grammatically incorrect, but this "mistake" has become characteristic of their norm of Spanish.

I hope it helps.

So, both "asustaban" and "asustaran" are correct, but the imperfect is the better chooce? What is the difference in nuance? - DonBigoteDeLaLancha, May 10, 2017

Raff: I was going to ask the same question as Don. Also, don't a lot of possible versions exist with "a que haga" exist as well? - DilKen, May 10, 2017

Don: How did you conclude that Raff was saying that "imperfect is the better choice" I didn't see any preferences expressed in his post. - DilKen, May 10, 2017

Raff: I should have said "a que hiciera" instead of haga because it's all past tense - DilKen, May 10, 2017

No, Ken. No quería implicar eso. Raff indicó que todos son correctos. El hilo del tema sugiere que domina el imperfecto, y me choca. Sigo buscando en la literatura ejemplos que lo comprueban o lo descartan, todavía sin éxito. - DonBigoteDeLaLancha, May 10, 2017

Bosque made a good observation The last clause is an adj phrase that relates to cosas. If the things are known, then the indicative, if they are unknown, the the subjunctive. They are known in this case, right? They happened and the son remembers them. - DilKen, May 10, 2017

Yes, actually I did not express any preference. I just tried to provide a list with possible correct collocations. - Raff75, May 11, 2017

Good comments! Wow! OK. I will edit my answer to include more information. - Raff75, May 11, 2017

Me gusta el interes y el nivel de las respuestas. Las aportaciones gramaticales son muy buenas. - Raff75, May 11, 2017

Answer 7

This question has really got me thinking (and hopefully learning) I thought I would see what Butt & Benjamin say about the matter. Here is what I found.

16.5.2 Use of the infinitive with verbs of influence:

(c) With certain verbs, of influence, even when they are not impersonal and have different subjects. These are verbs that can be constructed with an indirect object, as in te ayudaré a conseguir / a que consigas lo que quieres. I'll help you get what you want. (My comment...I think quieras can be used here if the meaning is "whatever you want")

Many of these these are always followed by the preposition a, and the infinitive is almost always then used in preference to the subjunctive. As a general rule, Spanish-speakers avoid the subjunctive when the rules of grammar allow it. The most common of these verbs are:

22 verbs are listed...they include forzar a, impulsar a, incitar a, invitar a, mandar a, obligar a, and persuadir a.

Then they list some examples including:

Le obliqué a hacerlo.
Le obliqué a que lo hiciera
I obliged him to do it.

==============

Ken - so, according to B & B, using hacer is much more common instead of "a que hiciera"

They make no mention of any change of meaning between the two, which they usually do when they is one.

OK, so what about subjunctive vs indicative after hacer que for the last phrase of our sentence?

==================================

16.5.1 Use of the subjunctive with verbs of influence.

The following verbs always require the subjunctive when the subject of the subjunctive is different from the subject of the main verb (My comment...I think this is the case with our sentence, father is the main subject and cosas is the subject of the last phrase)

They then list 30 verbs, including causar que, decir que, exigir que, hacer que, insistir que, pedir que, querer que, suplicar que. (they list the English translation of Hacer que as "to cause" which is similar, I think, to the English (or American?) phrase....he made me do it.

==================================

So, if I am interpreting all this correctly, B & B say to use the subjunctive of asustar in our sentence because it is following hacer que.

Here is what I think they would recommend in it's entirety, (disagreeing with my prior opinion)

Cuando era joven, su padre le obligaba a hacer cosas que le asustaran.

Keep in mind, however, that according to B & B one could use either the indicative or the subjunctive after obligar. They say that the subjunctive must, however be used after hacer que.

After comment from Bosque, I now believe that the last clause (that scare him) is simply an adjectival clause, and since the things this his father made him to are known by him, the indicative should be used.

Cuando era joven, su padre le obligaba a hacer cosas que le asustaban.

Or I think you could say:

Cuando era joven, su padre le hacía a que hiciera cosas que le asustaban.

When he was young his father made him do things that scared him.

But I think it would be pretty weird to use hacer twice in a row like that, once for made / caused and the next for do.

I think cosas que le (asustar) is an independent adjectival phrase, and the choice of subjunctive or not depends on whether cosas are defined or not: see http://users.ipfw.edu/jehle/courses/subjadj.htm - bosquederoble, May 10, 2017

G R E A T point Bosque, of course you're right. In Things "that scared him" is just an adjectival clause. I M O, the verb should have nothing to do with influence/subjective or not. - DilKen, May 10, 2017

So, my understanding would now be that these things are known/defined. The son certainly can tell you all about each of these things, they are not hypothetical in the least. - DilKen, May 10, 2017

Answer 8

Hello Canned,

Welcome to our Spanishdict community forum

You asked:

How would you say "he was forced to do things that scared him" in Spanish? Ok, so the full sentence is: "When he was young, his dad made him do things that scared him" and I said: Cuando era niño, su padre lo obligaba a Diego hacer cosas que lo asustaba

I believe you can also translate to force somebody to do something using the verb forzar, although it's probably true that the verb obligar is more common, as shows here by the number of Spanish natives who have quite independently of one another, used the same verb obligar.

Cuando era joven, su padre lo forzaba a hacer cosas que lo asustaban.

I hope this helps

I realize that as a non-native speaker I am taking a big risk as you native speakers could all prove me wrong!

Corrijan mi español si es necesario, por favor

Ken, I have already corrected that mistake , It was caused by my predictive text cutting in and changing things because I didn't confirm the correct word asustaban that I had originally written. - FELIZ77, May 10, 2017

Please be a little more parient and continue to give me more time to correct my posts as you has promised that you would do. I am not a fast typist and make mistakes I usually submit what I have witten in stages - FELIZ77, May 10, 2017

then when I have completed my post I check for mistakes and edit and re-edit until I am completely satisfied with everything I have written.Even then it may still not be perfect! - FELIZ77, May 10, 2017

Sorry again, deleting prior comment now :) - DilKen, May 10, 2017

You get my vote. :) - Daniela2041, May 10, 2017

Thank you very much, Dani :) - FELIZ77, May 10, 2017

Answer 9

I like how kenhuizenga and bosquederoble zeroed in on how obligar would trigger the subjunctive for "Hacer" which doesn't apply since it is in infinitive form and *****not trigger*** it for "Asustar." And since the entire sentence talks about events that happened habitually in the past, it seems the imperfect indicative is the correct choice. (I'm certainly no expert but that seems right to me) ..Take it easy on me. First time I've added my two cents to a question ...lol)

Becket: Thanks for weighing in, please do so more often. I think you are missing one point. The English was given, hacer or que haga were two of many options (the others being to mood and tense of the other verbs) Hacer was not guaranteed to be right. - DilKen, May 10, 2017

Answer 10

Give it your best shot, Canned. We will correct you.

His Spanish is in the second sentence. - Daniela2041, May 9, 2017

Answer 11

So, what is the nuance mentioned in Raff75's post?

How do you say in American English, "Su padre lo obligaba a Diego hacer cosas que lo asustaba." (envío original)

How do you say in American English, "Su padre lo obligaba a Diego hacer cosas que lo asustara."

Yes, I know that both should be third person plural and that "lo" can be "le".

And, who's to say to whom "lo/le" refers? To the tather or to Diego? That's another monkey wrench. But let us assume that it refers to Diego.

"His father made Diego do things that frightened him." Who? That Diego do things to frighten himself or to do things that would frighten his father? "Hey, son, do something that will make me soil my trousers."

i love SD and this thread. I went to bed last night thinking about it and awoke the same way. Alfonso hasn't been around for me to ask his opinion, although I did score some coconut water.

"Su padre le obligó a Diego que

Don, known human direct objects are proceeded by the personal a. Indirect obects also if we use le. So Diego is the object in the main clause, right? - DilKen, May 10, 2017

And then the object in the next cluase should be the same unless changed by using a padre. - DilKen, May 10, 2017

As Bosque pointed out the last clause is an adj clause relating to cosas. If these cosas are know rather than hypothetical then the indicative should be used. - DilKen, May 10, 2017

And since su padre is not preceded by "a" it must be the subject. - DilKen, May 10, 2017

Don: Sorry, I missed the part where you said American English. I was addressing the Spanish. Sorry. I think you have a good point. - DilKen, May 10, 2017

Being an American, I would say the him would refer to the last mentioned person. If you wanted to say the things scared the father you wouldn't use him, you'd probably say "things that scared his father" - DilKen, May 10, 2017

Answer 12

Daré mi grano de arena con la expresión: he was forced to do things that scared him.

forced es un verbo transitivo, entonces haciendo uso del pasivo queda: él fue forzado a hacer cosas que le asustaban.
Aplicando el sujeto tácito, podemos dejar fue forzado a hacer cosas que le asustaban. (Aquí queda claro que la persona es un hombre por el contexto.)

La forma en que pondría esto haciendo uso de un modo pasivo reflexivo, queda: se le forzaba a hacer cosas que lo asustaban.

En ambos casos uso el imperfecto para denotar la acción repetida del pasado.

Oshnaj: Te agradezco por tu grano que es muy útil - DilKen, May 10, 2017