Why are the native Spanish Speakers Doing Less Correcting?
Why are the native Spanish speakers doing less correcting? I have a few thoughts.
First of all those that submit posts with errors seldom make the suggested corrections which is very discouraging to the one who is doing the correcting. In my case I work hard to come up with corrections and explanations in clear concise English, which will be easily understood by the student.
I can count on one hand the members that will make the desired corrections. Also in many cases when I come late on the scene to a thread and post my answer, when several answers have already been given, there will either be few votes or no votes, and no comments from the OP indicating that my post was even seen by the OP. Of course, when I am the first or the ONLY answerer it is different.
Many good Spanish speakers have left SD in discouragement feeling the same way that I do—at least I think that’s what happened. Still remaining are Julian, who contributes regularly, Luis Cache, a little less regularly, astotxua(spelling) who can be seen maybe once a week, and Txustaboy who hardly ever comes around anymore. There are several newcomers who are making some good contributions, especially Polenta, who is so regular that I can remember her username. Several others have such unusual usernames that I can never remember them.
I would like to say thanks and "kudos" to those advanced Students who are giving so much of themselves to this work and doing an excellent job of correcting.
Whenever I do post or make a correction, I can back it up with “ page and paragraph” from some college textbook. I very seldom rely on the RAE, because those people are consummate grammarians who love to use extremely complicated grammatical gobbledygook to make their explanations which are difficult for a Spanish speaker to understand, and impossible for the English speaking learner.
I would gladly participate more in this if some appreciation or even acknowledgement were shown by more of the members. I also feel that more Spanish speakers would do the same if their efforts were acknowledged.
12 Answers
I am not sure that some of the people who visit now realize that in the past the game threads had official/or unofficial but regular correctors.
As many may have discerned from what I have written before, my Spanish has been learned entirely through the internet and books. I have never had a Spanish class, or anyone sit in front of me and talk. I have had occasions to use my Spanish with people from time to time, but that is maybe a few times a year. As a result as I have said before my verbal skills are significantly behind my written skills, which is part of why I don’t move myself to advanced, I also have less exposure to Spanish as really spoken on the streets. I could do more for that but that is another story. I did post a little reading I did with my horrible gringo accent once.
I have greatly appreciated the help people have given me by correcting things- I don’t ask a lot of questions, and have depended on that help from people like Pablo and Cordobesa and (Suzie?- the Mexican American that lived in Texas that did corrections for a while). My learning has stagnated a bit with no input, and I am challenging myself less and less with no feedback on how I did with the complex sentneces.
I think I have always graciously accepted native correction (even when I have not fully agreed) and made corrections. I think it fair to comment back with non-natives and I do, but when they are right, I also make the changes.
The issues I have seen:
Time commitment- it takes time and there is really no reward other than the thanks of the people, there are no votes, or badges or any other silly gimmicks that people seem to like. Lesser commitments- to certain threads on certain days only might lead to less issue here- Pablo tried to do 2-3 threads fully every day.
The burnout from correcting the same mistakes by the same people over and over. It doesn’t help if people don’t seem to learn from your efforts. With Pablo I would always tell him- you corrected this mistake before, and I do remember it, I just screwed up again. I would really try not to make that error more than twice.
As you note, people who don’t even seem to notice the corrections you make. The game/learning threads to me are for that purpose, and if there were an official corrector, I would see part of the contract of posting on the thread being that you do your corrections.
People who argue with the corrections. As I said it is fair with a non-native, coming from your perspective. Arguing grammar points with a native speaker who does it entirely by what sounds right to them is not fair. Look up the grammar and if you don’t agree post a question if need be- don’t argue on the thread it will just make them quit. Some of it is going to be regional, yes, like an American correcting someone trying to learn British English by saying it is drunk driving not drink driving- it's not for those Americans that don't know that. But arguing with that person about their version of Spanish will not help. I don’t think the corrector should have to back it with a grammar resource- it is how they as a native speaker speak their own language.
I don’t have time now to go on longer right now, though I could. As you know, I have always appreciated your corrections. And will only argue if it is on my response to a grammar question (where it is fair to argue grammar points), not on a game thread.
Daniela and Bosque have made some very important points
Years ago, when our native Spanish teacher Heidita was here, she would insist that people correct their posts according to the native Spanish speakers' corrections and only those who made their corrections would be chosen as Best answer. However, we really shouldn't need such artificial incentives to correct our mistakes so we can learn and improve! If we are not here primarily to improve our Spanish or English, why are we here at all?
How can any of us hope to ever improve if we are not willing to learn from our mistakes???
I am probably far from a model student but I always try to remember to thank the correctors and make the necessary corrections to my posts as recommended by native Spanish speakers or advanced students like Ken and Bosque. Sometimes I may make them a little later on when I have time....I am still in the process of correcting part 1 of my story for children La princesa y la rana, according to the corrections kindly given by Raff 
Here is a link for anyone who may be interested: enter link description here
When I see the effort that English speaking native people regularly put into the Spanish in their Picture of the Day posts I am encouraged Most people are grateful for the corrections and people like Ann, Rac and Ray and Matt do make a big effort to correct their posts according to the corrections offered.
The only people I just cannot make out (understand) are those new visitors who visit the Spanishdict forum to post a question and then never seem to return to either thank the people who have taken the time and trouble to answer their question/s and so we do not know because we receive no feedback, whether our answers have helped them at all! Very frustrating!
Finally, as for those of you who expect us to do your homwork for you, I ask you all, why are you even bothering to learn Spanish or anything else at all if you are not willing to do the work involved? You will learn nothing of any value that will help you in the future if you do not practice and do the work your teacher sets you! If you simply don't understand it, that's very understandable, please do not be afraid to ask us and we will try to explain what to do! However, please do not simply post your homework and expect us to do it for you ....we will not do it!!! You must make an effort to do it first and post your results then we will be happy to check it and offer guidance corrections and advice!
Hola, Daniela:
In my particular case, I often would like to comment on participants' responses. However, I can't do it because the function "add comment" isn't enabled in the computer that I use to answer the questions of the site (it was enabled before).
That is the only reason why I stopped commenting on participants' responses.
I take the opportunity to tell you that my participation in this site is not very regular because in some months of the year, usually from August to January or February, I have too much work.
Anyway, I always read with pleasure the answers of the participants, especially those of the more assiduous, and I regret not being able to make them more suggestions.
Regards to all SD participants!
En mi caso particular, a menudo me gustaría comentar las respuestas de los participantes. Sin embargo, no puedo hacerlo porque la función "añadir comentario" no está habilitada en el equipo que utilizo para responder las preguntas del sitio (antes sí estaba habilitada).
Esa es la única razón por la cual dejé de comentar las respuestas de los participantes.
Aprovecho la oportunidad para decirles que mi participación en este sitio no es muy regular porque en algunos meses del año, normalmente de agosto a enero o febrero, tengo demasiado trabajo.
De todos modos, siempre leo con gusto las respuestas de los participantes, especialmente las de los más asiduos, y lamento no poder hacerles más sugerencias.
¡Saludos a todos los participantes del SD!
@Todos: Muchas gracias a todos por sus amables comentarios! Un saludo cariñoso!
Excellent, excellent posts by Daniela, Bosque, and Feliz. I can't say enough how much I appreciate SD. I use SD every day, although I may not post anything.
I'm not picking favorites here, but Daniela's explanations seem to be the best. I feel a bit of umbrage that she mentions the "gobbledegook" of the DRAE. I respect it. With so many Latinos spread around the world and the variances in their vocabulary, it is difficult to chose just one. That's why, when in doubt, I use the Castilian words. In order of use, top to bottom, I use SD, DRAE, Wordreference, and Lingüe. SD is, without a doubt, the best because we can argue about nuances, etc. I use "argue" in the real sense of the word.
I"ve been here for what?....five years? I didn't vote for answers until maybe, a year ago. I didn't realize the value of an "attaboy"" until an epiphany. I used to answer everything because "I am so smart". And then someone here, I forget who, wrote, "I will not do your homework You have to make an attempt". Wow! That was profound, and so true.
i can go on and on and on, but I must think about dinner. I'm going to make a nice sofrito with my chops and maybe some white rice. What would I know about sofrito (or moros y cristianos, for that matter) had I not, and continue , to learn more about Latino language/culture?
Thank you Daniela for opening this excellent thread .We need to discuss these types
of subjects more often in order to find out what is bugging us. I agree with all that has
been said here , the one point that I must stress to you all is to be aware of the time
difference of all our members , if you notice that your corrections have not been
attended to at the end of your day it may just be because the member is at the other
end of the world and fast asleep , they then need time to remember what they
have done and get back to them. One more point , I have noticed that sometimes
more than one correction has been offered which sometimes do not agree , members
who like me are not proficient enough to know which is more correct have a problem ,
so all of you great members that do the corrections please be understanding
if we have to pick one against another .
While I have a captive audience may I say to all new members that the
"congratulations posts" are for all members to participate in , you do not have
to know us all here , just jump in and say "Hi congratulations " that is all that
is needed , it is a great fast way to become a member of the' spanishdictoholics'.
Once you overcome that initial feeling of embarrassment you will roar
ahead like a racing tadpole.
And please guys give your support to all the members that open threads
in order that we can all learn in an enjoyable environment . There is nothing
more debilitating than seeing a new member ask "How to say idiot in Spanish'?
and they receive 85 answers and 200 votes , but some poor cow spends all
afternoon writing up a thread only to see it sink ignominiously into the S D graveyard.
In conclusion , more support and a greater recognition for all the Spanish speakers,
and more help to thread makers .
*Blessed are the threadmakers for they may inherit the earth.
In the past an "official" corrector had to be found before a thread about language was permitted.
That requirement and others have slowly disappeared.
The result is a far less disciplined SD.
Thank you for raising this Dani - the moderators "powers" are limited.
I admit not spending a lot of time on this site. Although, every time I pop up, I like giving answers.
When it comes to correcting grammar, I have to say it's not my field, but I want learners to understand how Spanish must be understood. I mostly focus on idiomatic expressions as opposed to correcting grammar. I can do the latter as long as I have the time and knowledge.
This is a good place to learn and achieves its greatness not only when native Spanish speakers answer, but also when students -even when they are not sure- jump into the pool.
Buenas noches a todos. Ya que la gran mayoría se ha expresado en su lengua materna, yo haré lo mismo,. Principalmente porque ando escaso de tiempo y energía.
En primer lugar , pienso que puede haber tantas razones para el descenso de las correcciones por parte de los hispanohablantes como hispanohablantes hay en SD. Como bien ha comentado Rac, " Todo el mundo tiene una vida fuera de SD" a lo que yo añadiría; y sus razones para participar o no, por lo que todas y cada una de las razones expuestas por cada uno de vosotros, pueden ser perfectamente válidas.
En mi caso empec? a participar en SD debido a 2 razones. La primera es que era una buena forma de entretenerme mientras estaba cuidando a un familiar , que ocupaba todo mi tiempo libre tras el trabajo, lo que me obligaba a valerme de un teléfono móvil para poder participar. la segunda y no menos importante es que siempre me han gustado los idiomas, en especial el Inglés, a pesar de carecer de talento para ellos ( es por ésto que mI apodo es Astotxua= el burrito). En SD vi un sitio perfecto para ambas cosas.
Si últimamente he participado menos es porque mi familiar ha fallecido y no me encuentro sobrado de fuerzas para hacer gran cosa.
En el tiempo que llevo en SD. Creo que mi inglés ha mejorado un poquito, sé que no demasiado, no sé qué pensaréis al respecto aunque me gustaría saberlo. Soy consciente de que cometo los mismos errores una y otra vez, principalmente por mi falta de disciplina. Confieso que muchas veces contesto sin repasar mi inglés y peor ahun, hay veces en las que no miro en el diccionario una palabra de la que no estoy seguro debido a la premura y a lo engorroso que es manejar varias páginas en un móvil , aunque positivamente sepa que no es la mejor forma de aprender una lengua.
Para finalizar me gustaría daros las gracias a todos por vuestras correcciones y por los buenos momentos que me habéis hecho pasar.
I like when non-native Spanish speakers have doubts. Most of them, when they are not about grammar, are very interesting and they make me think things over. Most of their doubts are something I've never even thought about and it's incredible how this makes me think about my beloved Spanish from a very new viewpoint. Thanks to all.
First of all, a big thank you to Daniela for raising this issue.
Rather than restate some of the major points already made, I'll try to confine myself to a few other points.
Presumably the people who stay here do so because they are getting something greater in return than they could elsewhere. And the "competition" or "options" for learning English and Spanish on the internet are expanding rapidly.
The native Spanish speakers who used to help me the most were the ones who were trying to learn English. They could be understood in English, but were looking to improve grammar and say things more naturally. There were some who requested that I correct their English even if they made minor errors or "said something in an unusual way" even in their comments. And I did the same with them. When I could I would reply to them 30-50% in Spanish and they would correct my comments.
I'm not sure how to get better native Spanish participation in the "games." One key might be to ask a few of them to focus on one or two games. Perhaps La Palabra del Diá and Picture of the Day. If we made it clear to a few energetic native speakers: e.g. Polenta, Raff, DoctorSpanish, Julian, etc. that we would really appreciate their help on one or two games....maybe we would get the help we're looking for. I rarely give or expect advice on any of the other continuing threads. (but do respond to one off questions)
On that point, I have gotten excellent feedback every time I've posted an original question and asked for corrections to my Spanish. I've done this with original paragraphs as well as exercises that I invented to firm up my use of a particular grammatical structure such as time duration in the past or past subjunctive.
I agree 100% with the previous comments about motivation and courtesy. The people who show gratitude and make corrections are the ones that I focus on. For those who don't I might make a correction if I think it will help a lot of others learn by reading the comment, but if it is something minor like the wrong gender for an article or adjective or wrong conjugation I don't bother.
I hope we continue to search for improvements to native Spanish feedback for at least one or two daily games and thanks again Dani for bringing this up.
I don't understand, Ian. How can a "corrector" be found/anointed/appointed, etc. before a thread is posted?
Good thoughts Dani. I appreciate all that you add.
