Direct/Indirect Object pronouns vs Pronouns as objects of a preposition

Question

Are prepositions implicit in spanish, and when should you use either of the two in a sentence?

Direct object: what or whom the subject is acting on. Indirect object: to or for who.

So would it be correct to say

Rachid received it from her.

Rachid lo recibe de ella

Rachid se lo recibe (is the 'from' implicit here?)

I speak with them

Hablo con ellos or Los hablo (is the 'with' implicit here?)

Overall, are there specific cases I should use the D/IOP and when should I use the pronouns as an object of a preposition, and shouldn't, respectively?

I apologise since this topic gets asked about quite a bit, but I've only seen stuff like the prepositional pronouns are added for emphasis etc, but not whether a) they can actually replace the OP, b) whether prepositions are implicit in OPs (given context, maybe).

Welcome to SpanishDict. Don't forget your capitalization. "Spanish" should be capitalized. - rac1, Mar 27, 2017

Answer 1

Inya:

The following is my current understanding. I welcome any corrections if I am wrong about any of this. In addition, sometimes the grammar rules say one thing and common usage is another.

Are prepositions implicit in Spanish, and when should you use either of the two in a sentence?

Indirect objects are always preceded by "a" Direct objects are preceded by "a" when they are known human beings or other things which you anthropomorphize such as a pet animal or by no preposition if they are unknown human beings, ordinary animals or other things. If an object is preceded by some other preposition it cannot be replaced by either a direct object pronoun or indirect object pronoun. You just keep the preposition and use the appropriate object of a preposition pronoun.

Rachid received it from her.

Rachid lo recibe de ella
Rachid se lo recibe (is the 'from' implicit here?)
I don't believe this is allowed with this verb, you need to go with your first option with "de ella"

I speak with them

Hablo con ellos or Los hablo (is the 'with' implicit here?)
Hablar has many different definitions, some of which require "con" and others that work with "a". With the "speak with them" meaning you can't get rid of the con ellos. If you study hablar in the SD dictionary you will find other meanings which do take direct or indirect objects...so the pronoun substitution process is different in those cases.

Overall, are there specific cases I should use the D/IOP and when should I use the pronouns as an object of a preposition, and shouldn't, respectively?

You need to study each verb on it's own by using the dictionary. If the meaning of the verb that you want to use requires a preposition other than "a" then you can't replace it with either a DOP or IDOP. You have to keep the original preposition and use the object of preposition pronouns. Alternatively, I you read a lot of Spanish, and you are aware of this phenomena, you'll learn a lot of it that way.

There are, however, some situations where multiple structures are allowed which mean the same thing. A good example is comprar.

Juan compró un libro a Ana.
John bought a book for Ana.
Juan se lo compró.

Juan compró un libro para Ana.
John bought a book for Ana.
Juan lo compró para ella.
You can't get to Juan se lo compró if you start with para.

Another very handy tool is context.reverso.com There are a great number of entire sentences stored in their databank with both English and Spanish. So you can do a search for a phrase and see what comes up. (you can search in either English or Spanish)

This cleared it up in my head a lot - and thanks for the website link! - inya, Mar 28, 2017

hi, relating to this: can i drop the indirect object pronoun here? Ella no le escribe a Juan una carta. So do the same rules apply to IOPs? - inya, Mar 29, 2017

Answer 2

This maybe of assistance.

This post is asking about a different issue Ray. Very little to do with DO and IDO pronoun placement. It has to do with objects of prepositions which is a a whole other thing:) - DilKen, Mar 28, 2017

I deleted them. - rac1, Mar 28, 2017

Answer 3

Another tactic you can apply is as follows:

Transitive verbs which take direct as well as indirect objects have the following syntax:

Verb + algo + a alguien.

Searching for "recibir algo a alguien" - 6 hits (probably mistaken at that

Searching for "recibir algo de alguien" - 204,000 hits

From this you can see that the person who receives something is not an indirect object, but is an object of a preposition. You can't get rid of the "de" if you're going to use correct grammar.