R I D order revisited once again

Question

The answer by JulianChivi in the following thread:

http://www.spanishdict.com/answers/288398/can-a-sentence-have-a-reflexive-pronoun-indirect-pronoun-and-direct-pronoun-all-in-one

allows me to revisit an old question of mine:

http://www.spanishdict.com/answers/264930/personal-pronoun-order

Most of us have learned RID (Reflexive, Indirect, Direct) as the traditional order of pronouns.

But, I have seen an alternative claim (Butt and Benjamin) that the order of the pronouns can be thought of as:

1-se

2-te/os

3-me/nos

4-le/les/lo/la/los/las

His example follows both rules.

¡Cepíllatemelos! Brush them (your teeth) for me (because I say so)

But if we can say that, can we change the command to present indicative and say:

Te me los cepillas. You brush them for me. Still follows both rules.

and if so can I say:

Me te los cepillo. I brush them for you. RID order.

or would it be:

Te me los cepillo. Benjamin and Butt order.

A simple (sounds good, sounds bad) for each of the 3 bolded sentences I made based on the first bolded one is all I am looking for. :) - bosquederoble, Jan 20, 2017

Answer 1

I never learned a grammatical rule of order for pronoun placement, so all I can say is between the second two examples Te me los cepillo sounds much better, however, for this expression "Me los cepillo para ti" - sounds more natural.

In this instance there doesn´t seem to be any reason to construct this phrase with only pronouns. Maybe one of Daniela´s textbooks can give you better grammatical information.

Added: Te me los cepillas also sounds strange to me.

The use of 3 pronouns in a simple phrase sounds better in imperative - possibly because when you demand something, the fewer words used will give you better results.

Thanks, that is what I wanted to know. : - bosquederoble, Jan 20, 2017

But you do pick te me los cepillo over me te los cepillo, which violates R I D, but keeps the other order. Still as I suspected, you preferred to just take the te out as the most natural. :) - bosquederoble, Jan 20, 2017

I really learned quite a lot from this, and the thread I took your answer from (where my comments were clearly wrong, but mistakes are how we learn). :) - bosquederoble, Jan 20, 2017

You explained quite well why you like what you like- I don't need a rule from a textbook (and I doubt one exists for what I was looking for). Thanks, again. :) - bosquederoble, Jan 20, 2017

Answer 2

It sounds right, although it would be very rare. Some practical examples used in Spanish are:

No me le den dulces al niño.

Two indirect pronouns: me / le

Don't give him candies, because I say so.

Que Dios me los bendiga.

Two indirect pronouns again: me / los

God bless you, because I ask him to do so.

But I will also say:

¡Vísteteme! ¡Péinateme!

Get dress because I say so, or Comb your hair because I say so.

In this case the reflexive pronoun would come firstly.

I would also say:

¡Te me vistes! ¡Te me peinas!

Or:

¡Te me lavas los dientes!

(Instead of ¡Te me los lavas!)

The answer sounds unnatural:

Me te los cepillo.

Instead I would say something like:

"Vale, me los cepillo, ¿contento?"

Thank you. :) - bosquederoble, Jan 21, 2017

I know I have to strain quite a bit to find something someone would actually say that involves an order that the two different rules don't agree on. And I have yet to find a possibility that anyone says sounds natural that follows one but breaks the othe - bosquederoble, Jan 21, 2017

Answer 3

Luis provided these as acceptable examples:

¡Te me vistes! , ¡Te me peinas!, ¡Te me lavas los dientes!

If I switch the pronominal subject of these sentences with the indirect object (from you do it for me to I do it for you), would it be:

¡Te me visto! , ¡Te me peino!, ¡Te me lavo los dientes! (Benajmin and Butt order)

or

¡Me te visto! , ¡ Me te peino!, ¡ Me te lavo los dientes! (R I D order)

or is it simply unnatural to turn them around that way?