Él le dio or Él dio

Question

How would you say he gave flowers to his wife, "Él le dio flores a su esposa." or "Él dio flores a su esposa."

Welcome to the forum, if you plan on staying around, please fill out your profile, it is helpful to us in how to gauge our answers to you, and answers from you. :) - bosquederoble, Dec 2, 2016

Answer 1

It's unnecessary when the other subject is clear.

1. Él le dio flores. (= a ella)
2. Él dio flores a su esposa.
3. Él (le) dio flores a su esposa.

Option #3 is widely used, despite having the redundant object pronoun.

Gracias Oshnaj. It seems Bosque is right as normal and balance is restored to the universe :) - jellonz, Dec 2, 2016

Answer 2

"Él le dio flores a su esposa." or "Él dio flores a su esposa."

Technically both are correct, but the vast majority of times people prefer the redundant indirect pronoun. A redundant pronoun is required when an object occurs before the verb- direct or indirect ( as in A mí me gusta...you must have the me). It is not technically required when the object follows the verb, but it is preferred if the object is an indirect object, and usually not included if it is a direct object.

So you would normally use le to mark a su esposa, but nothing to mark flores.

This is my opinion as a fellow learner.

Remember in most cases the "él" is not needed- only for clarification or emphasis.

Please also note as Jellonz points out below, the indirect object pronoun is also needed when the indirect object is a pronoun (You cannot say "él dio flores a ella", it must be "él le dio flores (a ella)"- only the a ella is optional (and usually only .. - bosquederoble, Dec 3, 2016

...included for emphasis or clarification. :) - bosquederoble, Dec 3, 2016

Answer 3

I'm going to hesitantly disagree with Bosque here (because he is one of the best answerers on SD).

What I have learnt is that the indirect object pronoun must be included even if the IO is specified, except when the IO is a proper noun. So:

"Él le dio flores a su esposa" would require the IO pronoun. But in:

"Él [le] dio flores a Maria" the IO pronoun would be optional.

Again, this is very hesitant, and I would not be surprised if what I have learnt is wrong and Bosque is right

EDIT: And according to Oshnaj I have learnt incorrectly :( Sorry for doubting Bosque.

EDIT EDIT: Perhaps my confusion has sprung from SD's own article which states: In general the indirect object of a sentence will ALWAYS use an indirect object pronoun whether or not there is also an indirect object noun phrase.

Putting "ALWAYS" and "In general" in the same sentence probably isn't ideal. After some further digging here is Izanoni1's response to that SD statement:

While it is true that in many cases the indirect object pronoun (atonic) is obligatory, it is also true that in certain circumstances it is considered optional. Below is an outline of such circumstances:

Obligatory:

1). The Indirect object is a personal pronoun (prepositional pronoun)

Examples:

a). A mí me dieron el dinero. ? They gave me the money

b). Me dio el libro a mí. ? He gave me the book.

2). The indirect object is not a personal pronoun but precedes the verb

Examples:

a). A mi madre le dieron el dinero. ? They gave my mother the money

b). A Paco le dio el libro. ? He gave Paco the book.

Optional:

The indirect object is not a personal pronoun and appears after the verb:

Examples

a). (Le) dieron el dinero a mi madre. ? They gave my mother the money

b). (Le) dio el libro a Paco. ? He gave Paco the book.

Note: Even though it is optional in these cases, it is still much more common that the atonic pronoun be included.

I would still like a native speaker to confirm this as there are many different opinions about it when you search online forums.

Oh, I am wrong sometimes. Posting what I think is how I find out if I am right or wrong though, if someone calls me on it. :) - bosquederoble, Dec 2, 2016

I agree with Izanoni- he mentions what I mention, the location, and personal pronoun, where the (él, ella, etc,) is optional, but the (le, etc.) is required. :) - bosquederoble, Dec 3, 2016

Thanks Bosque. Many on the www state the "le" is always necessary, but I'm guessing like me they have just learnt that incorrectly. I'm 99% sure you are correct but would still like one of our native friends to stamp in the final 1% :) - jellonz, Dec 3, 2016