Subject identification.

Question

Another user recently asked for confirmation of her translation of "Siempre devuelve el golpe el mar." The answers, mine included, agreed that this meant something along the lines of "The sea always strikes back" but my question is how do we definitively know which noun is the subject?

Obviously logic suggests the sea is the subject doing the "hitting" but if we set logic aside, or come up with a context like Neptune in a bad mood perhaps we could have "The hit always returns the sea." My question is: Is there anything grammatical that governs the subject?

As an added example, say "The dog always wags his tail." If my Spanish is correct (with the definite article used instead of the possessive) and following the first example then this could be written as "Siempre menea la cola el perro." But (in English at least) we have a saying "The tail wags the dog" which means a small or seemingly powerless part actually controls the whole. So, grammatically, what dictates the subject in the Spanish version? Word order?

Answer 1

I am not a grammar expert, so I'll just give my opinion and I hope someone with more grammar knowledge answers this question. "Siempre devuelve el golpe el mar" the verb devolver is a transitive verb, meaning it needs a direct object. In this case, the direct object is el golpe. If "el golpe" is the direct object then it can't be the subject of the sentence (unless you turn the sentence into the passive voice, that is when the direct object becomes the subject of a sentence and it'd be: "El golpe es devuelto por el mar"). If you ask yourself ¿quién devuelve el golpe? or ¿quién lo devuelve? you answer "el mar", so it is the subject.

Thanks Mariifer. It is what designates "el golpe" as the direct object that I'm trying to find out. Does it just come down to word order? In English we would have SVO, but this Spanish sentence is VOS, Does the VO relationship remain fixed and is ... - jellonz, Nov 26, 2016

... it this fixed relationship that tells us which noun is the object and by default which is the subject? - jellonz, Nov 26, 2016

I think Spanish has a flexible order. Typically, you have S V O, and typically, the V is followed by the O but it could also be interrupted by a circumstance (or do you call them adjuncts?) - mariifer, Nov 26, 2016

In this case, I don't think the sentence presents an ambiguity because by context it's deductible what the O is. I'd like to think of a weirder one - mariifer, Nov 26, 2016

I'm sure an example with "comer" or the like could present suitable ambiguity. In the absence of an answer from a native speaker I'll assume the same as you: that while the subject placement is flexible it is not likely to split the verb and the object. - jellonz, Nov 27, 2016

No idea if that is correct but until we hear from a native speaker I guess it's the best we've got :) - jellonz, Nov 27, 2016