perfect subjunctives to express past actions

Question

I recently posted this question. However, since I'm still not clear, I am asking the same question again.

I am studying the subjunctive tenses in a grammar book. Here is an exerpt from that book:

"It is important to understand the contrasts between the present and imperfect subjunctives which express actions simultaneous with or subsequent to the action in the main clause and the perfect subjunctives (present perfect and pluperfect subjunctives), which express actions happening before the main clause."

To illustrate this, the book provides these examples:

1. [Salir in present subjunctive] No creo que salgan. I don't think they are going out.
2. [Salir in present perfect subjunctive] No creo que hayan salido. I don't think they went out.
3. [Salir in imperfect subjunctive] No creía que salieran. I didn't think they were going out.
4. [Salir in pluperfect subjunctive] No creía que hubieran salido. I didn't think they had gone out.

In my recent post my question was this: How do you say I didn't think they went out?

I received an answer saying that the way to say I didn't think they went out is : No creía que salieran.

But if that is true, then how would you say I didn't think they were going out? Also, if the answer I received is correct it would seem to conflict with the excerpt from the grammar book I set forth above. That is, to say that I didn't think they went out = No creía que salieran means that it is ok to use the imperfect subjunctive to express actions happening before the action in the main clause.

Answer 1

Every example you have given I have both read, heard, and used.

Your question sentence: "I didn't think that they were going out" probably doesn't have an exact equivalent in Spanish. This does occur occasionally. The verb "to like" as you know doesn't exist in Spanish. You must use the verb "to please" or "to be pleasing" to. Going from Spanish to English, English doesn't have an exact verb for "calzar" (to wear a certain shoe size. ¿Qué número calzas?- what is your shoe size?"

My personal preference would be to use the past progressive. "No creía que estuvieran saliendo." I didn't think they were going out" It may be technically correct, but I don't know if any native would use it. I certainly wouldn't unless I was instructed to do as close to a word-for-word translation as possible.

Several translators give something like "No pensé/pensaba que iban a salir." Note that this translation does not employ the subjunctive. This is probably what I would say. Not all native speakers follow all the rules. We do make mistakes when engaging in rapid conversation. When I lived in Mexicali BC, Mexico, I was amazed at some of the ways they avoided the subjunctive in certain situations.

I hope this will help you a little. (Espero que esto te ayude un poco) Note that while English uses the future here, Spanish uses the subjunctive. This is why I say that sometimes it is impossible to do a word for word translation.

Great answer, Dani :) - FELIZ77, Aug 19, 2016

Answer 2

I received an answer saying that the way to say I didn't think they went out is : No creía que salieran.

This can´t be correct even in English and therefore it´s not translatable to Spanish because the opinion formed in the past takes place after the action of going out in the past.

"No creía que salieran" indicates the believing takes place before the going out, which is already mentioned as your third example, although to be absolutely correct it should be "I didn´t think they were going to go out".

Daniela makes a good point of the use of iba for this tense and it´s very common although grammarians will probably argue it´s lack of correctness. I too would say: No pensaba / creía que iban a salir. This usage is not to avoid the subjunctive but just because "it sounds right".

Makes perfect sense to me, Julian :) - FELIZ77, Aug 19, 2016

Answer 3

I'm not a native speaker (of either spanish nor english), so I'm not 100% sure, but I just want to note a couple of things.

It seems to me that the answer you received in your previous post doesn't conflict with your grammar book at all. If you have a sentence "I don't think they go out" and you transfer that sentence into past tense, you get "I didn't think they went out". The 'going out' in this context has a meaning of, for example, frequently going out ("I didn't think they went out every Saturday") and therefore both clauses occur simultaneously.

then how would you say I didn't think they were going out?

As for the second sentence you asked about, it could have two meanings, either the near future expressed by present continuous ("I didn't think they were GOING TO go out") or just the present continuous in its regular meaning. The translation "No pensaba / creía que iban a salir" can work in the first case, but I don't think it covers the second one, right? The second case is closer to "No creía que estuvieran saliendo.", like Daniela2041 proposed.

thanks, I'm going to read your answer again when I have time to absorb it and review the relevant section in my grammar book. - malbecblend, Aug 22, 2016