When to use subjunctive in these sentences

Question

1) I suspect that you think I am guilty

I would say: Sospecho de que pienses que yo soy culpable. Sospechar tells me to use subjunctive for pensar. Pensar tells me to use indicative for Ser.

2) I think that you suspect that I am guilty

I would say: Creo que sospechas que yo sea culpable. Creer tells me to use indicative for sospechar. Sospechar tells me to use subjunctive for ser.

Are these assumptions correct? Or is there a special rule for when I use:

1) The first verb indicates subjunctive for all verbs that follow it regardless of how many "que" there are

2) Indicative + que + Subjunctive verb + que + _____. Not sure what should go in blank.

3) The first verb indicates indicative for all verbs that follow it regardless of how many "que" there are

Additional questions: 1) What is the difference between sospechar de que and sospechar que?

Answer 1

I would say:

Sospecho que piensas que soy culpable

Creo que sospechas que soy culpable

All verbes in the indicative mode.

Thanks Lois. - annierats, Jun 1, 2016

Thank you so much Luis!! I think my example was bad because sospechar and creer are both followed by subjunctive. So I think a better example would be: I think that you wish that I am guilty - Ramonaspiker, Jun 1, 2016

Creo que tú deseas que yo soy/sea culpable. Creer tells me to use indicative for desear, but does it also tell me to use indicative for Ser? - Ramonaspiker, Jun 1, 2016

Or do I use subjunctive for Ser because desear tells me to use subjunctive? - Ramonaspiker, Jun 1, 2016

In my first comment I meant to say that both creer and sospechar are followed by indicative not subjunctive so what would happen if I had one verb normally followed by subjunctive and one verb normally followed by indicative In the same sentence? - Ramonaspiker, Jun 1, 2016

Oye Luis, sólo para meterme contigo: ¿Sospechas que yo sea el culpable? - 005faa61, Jun 2, 2016

Answer 2

My thinking ( await further answers, Bosque is better than I am at grammar and we have some natives):

2 --Creo que sospechas que soy yo el culpable. ( Creo que is followed by the indicative)

1 Sospecho que me creas culpable.

Creo que sospechas que soy el culpable. Wouldn't ser be sea instead of soy because sospechar is followed by subjunctive? - Ramonaspiker, Jun 1, 2016

Because you said Sospecho que tu me creas culpable. Creas is the subjunctive form of creer. - Ramonaspiker, Jun 1, 2016

Is there a special rule that when creer is the first verb of a sentence, all verbs after it in that sentence regardless of how many "que" there are should be indicative? - Ramonaspiker, Jun 1, 2016

I don't know, we await further comments. - annierats, Jun 1, 2016

Ok thank you for truing Annie! - Ramonaspiker, Jun 1, 2016

Trying* - Ramonaspiker, Jun 1, 2016

¡Buenísimo el refrán! Lástima que falta una coma atrás del primer "creo" y que "porque" lleva un espacio por medio - 005faa61, Jun 2, 2016

Sí Juan, el refrán esrá escrito sin atención, como si estuviera escrito por mi, pero no lo es. - annierats, Jun 2, 2016

Answer 3

See discussions here (sospechar) and here (creer).

"Sospechar de que" appears to be rare and/or incorrect; see here.

I was taught V O C E S - if it is verdad/obvio/cierto/evidente/segura it is indicative unless it is negative. I have always - Mardle, Jun 1, 2016

included creer in that definition and am pleased to see on your second link lazarus concurs! - Mardle, Jun 1, 2016

Mardle, creer is the sort of first one tought because it seems sological it should be in the subjunctive but it is NOT, even I have learnt this rule..which means it is a strong rule + - annierats, Jun 1, 2016

+ you hear creer que an awful lot. - annierats, Jun 1, 2016

Thanks Mardle! I also learned that acrynom too. Thanks for the links jtaniel! I think I know enough about sospechar and creer que, the problem is using them together and then ending the sentence with another verb. - Ramonaspiker, Jun 1, 2016

So like sospechar que + creer que + verb (in this case, Ser). Not sure how I would cobjugate each verb based on that order - Ramonaspiker, Jun 1, 2016

And this order: (Yo) creer que + (tú) sospechar que + (yo) ser - Ramonaspiker, Jun 1, 2016