Indirect and direct object pronouns together

Question

Which is correct? I find conflicting opinions in textbooks and online.

Ellos les me vendieron a los Árabes.

Ellos se me vendieron a los Árabes.

Answer 1

Hi garypopkin,

It depends of the context of the sentence or what you want say. Could you write the sentence in English?

'les' and 'se' cannot be together with 'me'.

"They sold me to the Arabs." Translate to Spanish, please. - garypopkin, May 23, 2016

'se' and 'me' appear together very commonly. "Se me olvidó la pregunta." - garypopkin, May 23, 2016

Se me perdieron las llaves. - garypopkin, May 23, 2016

Se me cayó el libro. - garypopkin, May 23, 2016

Answer 2

"I left the children with you and you sold them both to the Arabs?!!"

"...se los vendiste ambos a los Árabes?!!"

"My in-laws sold us to the Arabs."

"...les nos vendieron a los Árabes."

My guess is the second will have the same issues as me. The first seems possible to me and is similar to the question in my answer. Hopefully a native speaker returns and answers us both. - bosquederoble, May 23, 2016

Or is it "...se nos vendieron a los Árabes."? - garypopkin, May 23, 2016

Or "...nos vendieron a los Árabes."? - garypopkin, May 23, 2016

The first sentence is correct, but the second one is not. It could be without 'les'. - jmora, May 24, 2016

'Mis suegros nos vendieron a los Árabes" - jmora, May 24, 2016

Gracias. What is the rule that requires 'se' in the first sentence but forbids 'les' in the second? - garypopkin, May 24, 2016

Answer 3

"They sold me to the Arabs" ~ Ellos me vendieron a los Árabes.

You are right. There are a lot of senteces with 'se me', but if you see the senteces that you wrote me, all of them are used in the first person of singular.

'Se me olvidó la pregunta' ~ I forget the question.

'Se me perdieron las llaves' ~ I lost the keys.

'Se me cayó el libro' ~ I dropped the book

Answer 4

"They sold me to the Arabs" ~ Ellos me vendieron a los Árabes.

Fascinating. Although normally one would include the redundant indirect pronoun, here the native speaker (jmora) chooses to drop it.

Here is an example from this site in which it is used- se here clearly refers to le= un camionero llammado Ed Kinney, as the verb is conjugated to yo, and so it cannot be pronominal. Unfortunately the translation is bad (it is in the present) which doesn't instill confidence.

http://www.spanishdict.com/examples/vendí

Se lo vendí a un camionero llamado Ed Kinney.I sell it to trucker named Ed Kinney.

I asked a similar question in the past, using dar instead of vender:

http://www.spanishdict.com/answers/264964/pronoun-order-revisited

Based on two different interpretations of pronoun order that I noted in this question:

http://www.spanishdict.com/answers/264930/personal-pronoun-order

Most of us have learned RID (Reflexive, Indirect, Direct) as the traditional order of pronouns.

But, I have seen an alternative claim (Butt and Benjamin) that the order of the pronouns can be thought of as:

1-se

2-te/os

3-me/nos

4-le/les/lo/la/los/las

So the "se me" concept would be wrong, as there is no l word following and so se in this case must be pronominal, which is not how you are using it. And if you use "les me" you violate the second rule I have above, and if you go "me les" you violate RID order. Solution, drop the "redundant"pronoun.

Now I wonder if this would be correct:

Se lo vendieron a los árabes.

They sold it to the arabs.

Even if you can't change lo to me apparently. Hopefully I have not last anybody here- the only thing that is important is what I put in bold.

Thank you for your thoughtful and thorough comments. - garypopkin, May 23, 2016

I am trying to get this pinned down just like you. I have tried in the past and failed as well. :) - bosquederoble, May 23, 2016

Different people have difference opinions, just as in English. I will see what the language police say. http://RAE.es - garypopkin, May 23, 2016

If you can find a relevant link, I would love to read it. :) - bosquederoble, May 23, 2016

What you put in bold is correct in Spanish. My problem is as Spanish native speaker I know the correct way of the sentences in Spanish but I don't know who to explain it as a teacher :P like the RID rule. - jmora, May 24, 2016

So if I change "lo" to "me" and drop "a los árabes" (they sold me to them): "Se me vendieron", "les me vendieron", or "me vendieron" (but in my shortened version this no longer has "them". :) - bosquederoble, May 24, 2016

Answer 5

Ugh! I thought selling people was against the law. I hope I'm correct. Perhaps, did you mean to say that "I was sold out to the Arabs"? Ah, meaning that you were betrayed?

I mentioned Arabs because I think slavery is not illegal in Arab countries. - garypopkin, May 23, 2016

It can be pictured in the setting of a historical novel as well. But ultimately it is hypothetical just being used as an example to pin down a grammatical question. :) - bosquederoble, May 23, 2016

Answer 6

"How did you find yourself in Saudi Arabia? I thought you were in Greece with your in-laws."

"They sold me to the Arabs."

Translate "They sold me to the Arabs" into Spanish. - garypopkin, May 23, 2016