a fin de que

Question

Hi I was wondering if I need to include "de" when using a fin de que?

For example: Necesito comer a fin de que yo tenga energía para correr una milla.

Can I say necesito comer a fin que yo tenga energía para correr una milla?

Can I also say necesito comer a fin de tener energía para correr una milla? Or without the "de": necesito comer a fin tener energía para correr una milla?

Gracias

If you don't mind, I would also like to know if I can use "a fin de + infinitive" for when I have to deal with the same subject. Like does necesito comer a fin de poder correr una milla make sense? - Ramonaspiker, May 16, 2016

Make sense, but it sounds a little odd, you could try: "Necesito comer, para poder correr una milla" - EleRo, May 16, 2016

You explain why do you need to eat: I need to eat (necesito comer) para poder correr una milla (to be able to run a mile) - EleRo, May 16, 2016

Sounds good. Para instead of a fin de. Thanks a bunch again EleRo! - Ramonaspiker, May 16, 2016

Before sending private messages, check that your in box allows to recive the replays - 000a35ff, May 18, 2016

Ok thanks for telling me astotxua! I just checked it and now it allows me to recieve the replays - Ramonaspiker, May 18, 2016

Answer 1

A fin de or con el fin de are followed by a verb in infinitive (without "QUE") or a subordinated sentence introduced by "QUE" and with its verb in sudjuntive.

The order indicates The most used/used sometimes/the least used. In Spain.

Trabaja para/con el fin de/a fin de tener dinero ( the use of que would be wrong in this sentence.)

Trabaja para que/con el fin de que/a fin de que su mujer tenga dinero.

Thank you so much. Very concise answer. Do I need the "de" though? So could I say trabaja con el fin que/a fin que dú miner tenga dinero? And trabaja con el fin/a fin tener dinero? - Ramonaspiker, May 16, 2016

I see with the same subject (yo and yo), I should use the preposition and infinitive instead of conjunction+que+subjunctive. Does that apply to other conjunctions as well? Like hasta que and a menos que? - Ramonaspiker, May 16, 2016

For example: Mi hermana va a estudiar hasta que ella tenga hambre. Ella = my sister. So would this be grammatically correct? - Ramonaspiker, May 16, 2016

And I heard a menos is not a preposition so I have to use a menos que even with lack of subject. So would this be correct: Mi hermana va a estudiar a menos que ella tenga hambre. Ella = my sister - Ramonaspiker, May 16, 2016

For my first comment , I meant to say trabaja con el fin que/ a fin que de su mujer tenga dinero. Not dú miner - Ramonaspiker, May 16, 2016

1- the "de" is mandatory with adverbial locutions as a fin de que , a condición de que...... - 000a35ff, May 16, 2016

Alright that answers one of my questions, so thank you for that. Do you mind answering my same subject question and hasta que, a menos que translations please? - Ramonaspiker, May 16, 2016

Necesito comer a fin de que yo tenga energía para correr una milla it's ok but weird. It would be better. Necesito comer para tener energía para correr una milla. - 000a35ff, May 16, 2016

necesito comer a fin que yo tenga energía para correr una milla. Wrong de is nedeed. - 000a35ff, May 16, 2016

necesito comer a fin de tener energía para correr una milla. It's ok and better than the first one. - 000a35ff, May 16, 2016

necesito comer a fin tener energía para correr una milla wrong - 000a35ff, May 16, 2016

http://lema.rae.es/dpd/srv/search?id=0WI0lLaCjD655ud6n5 - 000a35ff, May 16, 2016

Mi hermana va a estudiar hasta que (ella) tenga hambre. It's ok. Ella omitted better - 000a35ff, May 16, 2016

I am understanding conjunctions a lot better now. Thanks soooo much astotxua! Would "mi hermana va a estudiar hasta tener hambre" be the best way to say my sister will study until she is hungry? - Ramonaspiker, May 16, 2016

Hasta que tenga hambre o hasta que esté hambrienta - 000a35ff, May 16, 2016

Hasta tener hambre o hasta estar hambrienta does not work? - Ramonaspiker, May 16, 2016

Answer 2

Here's something I copied from our translator. But first of all I just want to say that "a fin de que" and "para que" are almost synonymous, but "a fin de que" is stronger. We Spaniards use it all the time. I have NEVER heard of "dequeísmo" I have heard of "leísmo" which all of us Spaniards are guilty.

"a fin de que conjunction 1. (general) a. so that

La agarró del brazo a fin de que no se cayera sobre el hielo.He grabbed onto her arm so that she wouldn't fall over the ice.

b. in order to

A fin de que no quepa duda sobre los eventos de aquella noche, presento la siguiente prueba.In order to eliminate any doubt about the events of that night, I present the following evidence."

dequeísmo. Es el uso indebido de la preposición de delante de la conjunción que cuando la preposición no viene exigida por ninguna palabra del enunciado. - EleRo, May 16, 2016

http://lema.rae.es/dpd/srv/search?id=vTr05If13D6tGOqCWV I learn that word i college, a class to express ourselves in the right wat - EleRo, May 16, 2016

In college* and in the right way*, sorry for that, my bad - EleRo, May 16, 2016

Sin embargo, esa expresión (a fin de que) se usa por todas partes donde se habla español. Además se encuentra en los libros de texto. ¿No leíste que saqué lo que escribí del "traductor" de este sitio? - Daniela2041, May 16, 2016

Thanks Daniela for your answer. My teacher taught me the escapaa conjunction (en caso, sin, con tal, antes, para, a menos, and a fin de que), so it would make sense Spanish-speaking people use it would use it. - Ramonaspiker, May 16, 2016

Do Spanish-speaking people use "a fin de" as a preposition? For example: voy a comer a fin de tener energía para correr una milla - Ramonaspiker, May 16, 2016

You can use it, but isn't very common. Instead, is usual the use Of "con el fin de", example Of that is: "voy a dormir temprano, con el fin de madrugar" but, is common to say "para". "Voy a dormir temprano, para madrugar" - EleRo, May 16, 2016

Okay good to know. Thanks!! - Ramonaspiker, May 16, 2016

Answer 3

You can use it, but it's a wrong writing in spanish, is called "dequeismo". You can use this instead: Necesito comer para tener energía para correr una milla, or, Para correr una milla, necesito comer, para tener energía. Both are ok, but I will use the first option.

I know about para and para que, but I was wondering if there was a preposition for a fin de que (in order that ). Like a shortcut for when I have to deal with the same subject - Ramonaspiker, May 16, 2016

Answer 4

I can´t think of any preposition but, you can change the order and some words, Cuando necesito correr una milla, debo comer" When I need to run a mile, i need to eat. (you can add some food, to make the sentence have meaning) (Para correr una milla, debo comer manzanas, para tener energía (For running a mile, I must eat apples, in order to have energy.

The comment can´t be so long, so I make an answer. Hope it helped

Yeah definitely helpful. I like knowing different ways to express a sentence. You don't think a fin de is a preposition because " de" is a preposition? So I can't say necesito comer a fin de tener energía para correr una milla? - Ramonaspiker, May 16, 2016

have you heard of "con el fin de que"? Example: Fui a la España con el fin de aprender más. I went to Spain to learn more - Ramonaspiker, May 16, 2016

Or would this make sense: fui a España a aprender más. I went to Spain to learn more. - Ramonaspiker, May 16, 2016

A fin can be used, but isn´t very common. Como mucha carne, con el fin de ganar masa muscular (I eat a lot o meat, foe achieve/gain muscular mass) - EleRo, May 16, 2016

Fui a España a aprender más. You can explain a little more, fui a españa para aprender más de su comida. (I went to spain to learn more of their food) - EleRo, May 16, 2016

Can I say "Fui a España a aprender más de su comida"? - Ramonaspiker, May 16, 2016

Yes, you can, but you can say as well: Fui a españa para aprender más de su comida", you are explaining why did you go to Spain, - EleRo, May 16, 2016

Ok thank you so much! - Ramonaspiker, May 16, 2016

I have a question about another conjunction: hasta. Can a conjugated verb go after hasta? Like hasta salgo? If so, can you give me some examples? Thank you! - Ramonaspiker, May 16, 2016

And about dequeismo, what would you do with con tal de que? For example: I will go to the park as long as you come with me. - Ramonaspiker, May 16, 2016

Yes it can, example: Estaban tan emocionados por ir a la fiesta, que hasta corrieron a realizar su tarea. They were so excited about going to the party, that they even run to do their homework. - EleRo, May 16, 2016

Iría al parque, siempre y cuando me acompañes, or, iría al parque siempre y cuando vengas conmigo - EleRo, May 16, 2016

Siemppre y cuando is a conditional, I will do something, as long as you do certain thing/action - EleRo, May 16, 2016

Awesome! Sounds like a cool way to say as long as without con tal de que. Gracias - Ramonaspiker, May 16, 2016

Can you explain when to use hasta + conjugated verb and how that is different than hasta que + conjugated verb? - Ramonaspiker, May 16, 2016

I answered this above, I'm using a cellphone, and It's a little difficult to write long Messages as - EleRo, May 16, 2016

Ok no problem. I'll check it out now - Ramonaspiker, May 16, 2016

Can I use cuando y siempre with the same subject? Like how would I use cuando y siempre to translate: I will run as long as I am not tired - Ramonaspiker, May 16, 2016

Does it matter what order I put cuando y siempre? Does it have to be siempre then y then cuando? - Ramonaspiker, May 16, 2016

Is siempre y cuando/ cuando y siempre used only for conditional? Or can it be used to talk about the past: I ran as long as I had good sneakers - Ramonaspiker, May 16, 2016

Yes, you can, but is used as "siempre y cuando" I think is "as long" in english. In that phrase will be: "Correré, siempre y cuando no esté cansado" I will run, as long I'm not tired. Don't know if is correct that sentence. - EleRo, May 16, 2016

I think that's right. Thanks. Do I need a comma ( , ) before siempre y cuando? - Ramonaspiker, May 16, 2016

Answer 5

U could use, para: Debo hacer mi tarea temprano, para no desvelarme haciéndola I should do my homework early, in orden to not stay late doing it. (Not sure if is written correctly)

Yeah I'll start using para. I like it. Thanks for sharing! - Ramonaspiker, May 16, 2016

Answer 6

I agree with EleRo, however to use your original phrases I would say: Necesito comer al fin de que tenga energía para correr una milla and: Necesito comer con el fin de que tenga energía para correr una milla

I will use the second option, "Necesito comer con el fin de que tenga energía para correr una milla" but replace de que tenga energia, with con el fin de tener energía para correr una milla - EleRo, May 16, 2016

I explained in another question, in spanish is knows as "dequeis" the use of the word "de que" try to avoid it - EleRo, May 16, 2016

the word is Dequeismo, not dequeis, sorry - EleRo, May 16, 2016

Thanks for the thoughtful answers guys! - Ramonaspiker, May 16, 2016

Never heard of dequeismo. Thanks for sharing EleRo! - Ramonaspiker, May 16, 2016

What is the difference between el fin de and a fin de? - Ramonaspiker, May 16, 2016

"El fin" explains why you dou something, hago todas las tareas para aprobar la materia (I do all the homework, in order to pass the class) - EleRo, May 16, 2016

A fin de doesn´t sound good, i will use the words "con el fin de", example, con el fin de viajar a México, el estudiante ahorro todó el dinero que le regalaron sus padres en su cumpleaños. - EleRo, May 16, 2016

With the objetive of travelling to México, the studen save all the money that their parents gave him in his birthday - EleRo, May 16, 2016

student* - EleRo, May 16, 2016

That's understandable. I could also say "hago todas las tareas para que (yo) apruebe la material" using subjunctive with the same subject right? - Ramonaspiker, May 16, 2016

Right, only an observation. "para que apruebe la matería" can be replaced for "para aprobar la materia" - EleRo, May 16, 2016

True. Thanks man! I like how easy it is to understand when to use para and para que haha - Ramonaspiker, May 16, 2016

Answer 7

I will try: When you use "Hasta" only, you explain the end or the limite of something, or a place. Example: Corrí descalzo hasta la tienda [I run(ran?) without shoes to the store ] Estudié hasta quedar dormido. I study/studied? Until I fall sleep

When you use "Hasta que" you're also explain The limits Of something, some examples are: Comí helado hasta que me dolió la cabeza (I eat ice cream, until my head starts to hurt) There's a word, headache I think, but don't know how to use it correctly in this sentence. No pude dejar la oficina, hasta que no terminará mi trabajo I couldn't leave the office, until i haven't finished my work/my duties

Great explanation! Helps a lot! I think it makes more sense if the last example was: "no pude dejar la oficina hasta que termina mi trabajo" - Ramonaspiker, May 16, 2016

Is it true that hasta can be used to mean "even". Example: Ella hasta juega al baloncesto. - Ramonaspiker, May 16, 2016

"She even plays basketball" - Ramonaspiker, May 16, 2016

That's correct - EleRo, May 16, 2016

Only change pude por puedo and, termina mi trabajo, for termine mi trabajo. - EleRo, May 16, 2016

No puedo dejar la oficina, hasta que termine mi trabajo. I can't leave office, until i finish my work - EleRo, May 16, 2016

Sweet. And I can also say no puedo dejar la oficina hasta terminar mi trabajo - Ramonaspiker, May 16, 2016