An evaluation of our standards. A message for all.
Forgive me for posting this I know it has nothing to do with Language , but it
has everything to do with what has been happening to SD recently.
Maybe we all need to look inwardly and reevaluate ourselves
If someone wants to translate this we would be grateful
I know Ajhan Bramm very well , this is him speaking below.
I received a phone call from a custodial officer at a local prison. He wanted to speak to me personally to invite me to come back to his prison to teach. I replied that I was very busy now with many more duties than those days when I used to visit his prison regularly. I promised that I would send another monk. “No”, he replied. “We want you.”
“Why me,” I said.
“I have worked in the prison service most of my life,” explained the prison guard “and I have noticed something very unique with you. All the prisoners who attended your classes never returned to jail once they were released. Please come back.”
This is one of the most treasured compliments that I have received. So I thought about it afterwards. What had I done what others hadn’t that had genuinely reformed those in jail. I figured out that it was because, in all my years teaching in prions, I had never once seen a criminal.
It is irrational to define someone by one or two, or even several, horrific acts that they have done. It denies the existence of all the other deeds, their many noble acts that they have performed. I recognised the other deeds. I saw a person who had done a crime not a criminal. They were much, much more than the offence for which they were doing time.
When I saw the person and not the crime, they also saw the other part of themselves. They began to have self-respect, without denying the crime. Their self-respect grew. When they left jail, they left for good.
~ Ajahn Brahm, from his book "Don't Worry, Be Grumpy: Inspiring Stories for Making the Most of Each Moment."
8 Answers
The moral I get from Ray's post is "reveal the good in someone and they will reveal the good in themselves." While from Ann's I get "reveal the bad in someone and they will reveal the bad in themselves." If a new user's first experience on SD is a good one, then it is more likely to create a good user, but if it is a bad one, then ... you get the idea.
That said, rules are rules, and somebody has to enforce them. I admire the Mods efforts and understand their frustration. It is abundantly clear that the majority of new users are coming to SD for a quick answer, and there is no reason why the Mods should have to pander to them, even if unwelcome responses draw the worst out of some people.
My advice may sound counter-intuitive to any community looking to expand, but I'd suggest making the join up process more intensive. For a start, if language fluency and other information is necessary, then make it compulsory at the time of joining. A must read disclaimer stating the basic posting rules could also be an option. For sure, these measures would deter some potential users, but the majority of these would probably be coming for a quick answer anyway. And, more importantly for the Mods, it would prevent the necessity for "please add your ..." responses that must drive them crazy.
If new users are committed enough to fill in a detailed profile, and read basic posting rules (and hopefully follow them) then the Mods would not have to request additional info, explain rules, or post anything that could be construed as negative, and as a result more new users would find their first experience a positive one.
Just my thoughts.
I will dive into these dangerous waters with an observation that I hope will be taken in the spirit in which it is intended. I think we are sometimes too quick to jump to the conclusion that newly registered members are here to take advantage of us or to bother us with their ingenuous questions. We have occasionally driven off people that I thought might make good, contributing members because their initial posts were not to our liking. I remember being chided after making my first thread because it was a question that had been asked before. Sure, it would have been better had I searched using the right search term and discovered past threads on the topic, but I was a newly who was just finding her way around the site. I remember feeling rebuffed and chastened--and not very welcome. I persisted and came to understand the culture that prevails here, but some timid individuals might not have.
Of course it's clear that the people who are disrupting our site with spam have no intention of becoming part of our community of language learners. I have no idea how they would respond to a friendly overture, if that's what your post is suggesting, Ray. But would it take a lot more time to try sending them a friendly welcome message, including an invitation to join us rather than spamming us, than it does to keep banning them over and over? I have a feeling that the perpetrator(s) will be impervious to such attempts to deflect their rage or their sickness or whatever it is that's motivating them, but what can it hurt to try? If they respond with more spam, we're no worse off than we were to begin with. Banning remains an option.
Ray, if I've misinterpreted your intent, feel free to ignore me or to delete this post. I hope I've not offended anyone with it.
I am late to the party. But wanted to comment on this anyway. I agree with Daniela that some profile basics should be required. But given the way I was treated when I joined for posting a language level that some disagreed with, I find it hard to require this. Native language yes this should be required.
And I agree with AnnRon that we are quick to say "Fill out your profile or we won't help you." How ridiculous is this. First you may be helping someone who just doesn't understand how the forum works simply because they are new. But to me more importantly by not answering these questions we are limiting the ability of all of us to learn something from the answers that are generated. You never know what phrasing of an answer is going to light the bulb of understanding for someone other than the person asking the question.
Finally, to say search the topic first. Two points: the search function is terrible. Sorry but it is. Second a rehashing of a issue is a learning opportunity for us all. And aren't we here to learn?
Just my opinion.
How to handle spammers. I have no idea. Some sites require a math problem or word to be spelled to eliminate machine spammers. But if someone is typing each spam post by hand that is hard to stop.
I wish to add my thanks and appreciation for all that the mods do on this site. I am also in agreement that before posting there should be the requirement one little requirement that the would-be member give us a minimum profile consisting of the language level and their gender. Big Deal, Huh? Of course not.
They are asking us to take of our precious time and maybe spend 15 minutes to nearly an hour to give an answer. You have seen my answers, I slave over them, trying to mix a little humor with clear concise instruction. I also provide charts, and photos, wherever appropriate.
If all they want is a quick translation of a word or phrase, the Translator is open to everybody. But I believe that in order to get a member involved in giving what may be an answer to a very complicated problem, and do so in a clear concise manner, the OP should be required to give us something--how about a profile!
One of the outstanding characteristics of the Spanish-Latino culture is courtesy, you know, the "mi casa es tu casa" type of thing. We practice it with each other (most of the time that is) but it is--or should be a part of what we teach here. Many of this bunch of young people have never been taught courtesy or kindness by their parents or anybody else for that matter. Some of the comments by members regarding "please and thank you" warm my heart, and I believe are very constructive in instructing these young ones in proper conduct.
I don't know where I'm going with this, but I did want to add my two centavos' worth and contribute something positive and complementary to all of you---mods and members.
¡Adelante, compañeros! ¡Manos a la obra!
Abrazos a todos,
Daniela
Even though I don't know what has been going on...I agree with Jellonz.
I remember getting on boards and finding you had to actually jump through loops to get to be considered a regular contributor. I have always though that SD is way to lenient and allows anybody and everybody to post whatever. All, because SD is here to teach.
Maybe it is time to implement some more rules etc...
if I offended anyone. It was unintentional. I think I misread Ray's post and responded in a way that made it seem as if I didn't appreciate what you mods do for this site or how incredibly hard you've worked these last few days to save it. Nothing could be further from the truth, so please accept this virtual bouquet. . . .
This is a pm I sent to Ray in response to a pm from him asking what I thought we should do to better welcome newbies. And to clearly express my gratitude to the mods as I did not do that in my previous post.
I certainly did not mean to kick you while you were down. Not at all. And I do truly appreciate the job of the mods. I would not do it if they paid me and they do not pay you.. So a big thank you from me to all of you for your efforts.
But I do believe that we can have differing opinions. And I see every post not only as an answer to that individual but an answer and learning opportunity for the entire community. As for doing homework. It does not bother me. If someone takes the easy way in life it will catch up and bite them in the a** eventually.
But I think we should give everyone the benefit of the doubt. Answer the question but with a comment something like this. This looks like homework. We do not encourage helping with homework but as you are new I will answer your question in hopes that you will choose in the future to try on your own and become a part of our learning community.
Ray, I have not seen any of this spam but I have seen the posts regarding it so I know you and the other mods are working hard to keep the site clean. Again thank you.
Thank you Jellonz from the three mods, that made it all worth while.
For the past week we have been on duty 24 hours a day keeping SD open
banning and deleting one by one over 600 posts .It has been horrendous
a few members were aware and tried to help but could not , except to send us
their support which was wonderful .Our weekend was non existent.
We emerged shattered and exhausted , so if we appear a trifle delicate of spirit
that is understandable . But we stand behind what we have been doing and
believe that this is the only way to continue the cohesive family friendly
atmosphere that has made SD the preeminent language site on the internet.
We thank you all for your support in the past , now, and in the future.
God Bless you all* Amber, Ian Y Ramón.
