Why is the definite article "el" used in this sentence?

Question

While reading this morning, I had difficulty with the following sentence. Mainly, I do not understand why the bold "el" is used.

"Decidí respetar la ingenuidad con la que se expresa todo el que acaba de aprender un idioma que no es el suyo."

If someone can explain to me why the article is used here, and provide a grammatical rule which dictates the use of articles in this context, I would appreciate it very much. If you could provide a translation of the sentence, this may help me.

Thank you!

Welcome to the forum. Please fill out your profile with your gender and levels of proficiency in English and Spanish. This information is helpful to us. I'm sure someone will respond to your request. - Jubilado, Feb 6, 2016

Bienvenido al foro. Interesting question! - annierats, Feb 6, 2016

Thank you both. Jubilado, I've taken your advice and filled out my profile. - ericmshore, Feb 6, 2016

Sory to have written two answers, my thinking got very interupted . - annierats, Feb 6, 2016

Thank you for the profile , it is worth a vote from me. - ray76, Feb 6, 2016

Answer 1

Thanks, annierats. I think I'm beginning to understand the original sentence a bit better. Perhaps a valid, if slightly awkward translation would be:

"Decidí respetar la ingenuidad con la que se expresa todo el que acaba de aprender un idioma que no es el suyo."

"I decided to respect the ingenuity with which all those who just learned a language that isn't their own express themselves."

So "se expresa" and "todo el que" refers to a group by using the third person singular, similar to the noun "la gente". Am I understanding this correctly?

Also, to build off of annierats' post - can "el" be interchanged with "aquel" in this context? Or is there a shade of meaning in the quote you posted that determines that "aquel" and "el" should be used distinctively? In other words, is this sentence still correct?

"Decidí respetar la ingenuidad con la que se expresa todo aquel que acaba de aprender un idioma que no es el suyo."

Thank you.

Thanks I've written the tranlation I would make, I should have put it in from the beginning, but my husband is using the internet this afternoon. - annierats, Feb 6, 2016

It is my pleasure to give you 2 votes on this post. - Jubilado, Feb 6, 2016

Yes. - chileno, Feb 6, 2016

Answer 2

I would translate it in my illustration below as ' not everyone', and in your sentence ' all those that' or everyone that learns a foreign language..'.

As for rules, I have no idea. Maybe Dani or Bosque will pass by and help out. The construction definitely exists.

Yeap, I agree with you. I think "el" is used to specify or to refer to "todo". :) - AndréYuhai, Feb 6, 2016

Answer 3

"Decidí respetar la ingenuidad con la que se expresa todo el que acaba de aprender un idioma que no es el suyo."

Because el here refers to the one, context must be understood very well. It seems that we use this type of pronoun more in plural than in singular, so it´s more immediately understood if we say "... se expresan todos que acaban de aprender...." The easiest way to resolve this issue, at least in the written form of this sentence, would be to use the spelling of él, but I doubt that the RAE would ever agree as the context doesn´t refer to one specific person.

In the end to avoid any confusion, the best way to structure this sentence would be to replace el with la persona, which is how it would have to be done with a text of legal or medical nature - wordy but no mistakes of interpretation.

I don´t see the need to use aquel here due to the close proximity of the pronoun with the action: ... se expresa todo el que acaba ...

I will say I often get corrected when I use todos que instead of todos los que. :) - bosquederoble, Feb 6, 2016

"Los" in this case may be regional, but it´s grammatically not necessary. As you know, Spanish reveres redundancy but this usage of "los" sounds over-redundant - 005faa61, Feb 6, 2016

Answer 4

First of all I had to look up ingenuidad to make sure I knew what it meant. I thought it meant "ingenuity." but I found "ingenuousness." When I looked that up I found "free from reserve, restraint, or dissimulation; candid; sincere." I also found "naïveté" which although differing from the Annie's spelling, I at least know what it means. (French was actually my first language)

With regard to the "el" I believe that Annie has it right. "El que" means "the one that" so "aquel" can be easily substituted.

But I'll have to admit, I really do not understand the logic of the sentence if "naïveté" is the meaning of ingenuidad. I can only understand it if you translate it as "freedom" which would be a logical conclusion given the definition I found.

"I decided to respect the freedom (from restraint) with which one expresses himself who has just learned a language which is not his own."

Ray or Sir Ian, help!! You're better at English than what I am!

Ok, totally different take. I met an Englsish woman recently, who is married to a Spaniard. After 10 years he told he ' You speak like a child!' This has caused a massive upset to their relationship. - annierats, Feb 6, 2016

Which lead me to think, naive, child-like, straightforward, simplistic?? See how I got there? - annierats, Feb 6, 2016

Glad you agree on the aquel, I didn't really know but it sounds ok, if you say it.. - annierats, Feb 6, 2016

Thanks, Daniela. I had also assumed that ingenuidad meant "ingenuity", but it turns out not to be the case. Thank you for pointing that out! - ericmshore, Feb 6, 2016

Answer 5

Since my name was invoked, I will comment, even though I normally abstain when I have no idea what I am talking about and even though there is a reason I leave my language level intermediate, and this is one of them.

Background: although many nouns are simply followed by que: los ingenieros que trabajan aquí for instance, todo/todos is not- it requires the article. The following forms are very common:

Todo lo que= everything that- the lo is required you cannot say todo que.

Me gusta todo lo que haces. I like everything you do.

Todos los que= everyone that

Todos lo que han venido a mi fiesta son mis amigos- everyone that has come to my party is my friend.

Now the conjecture:

Todo el que would seem to be the singular form of todos los que, as you note. Making it seem more like each individual that has, rather than everyone (group) that has. So more a focus on it being the rare individual rather than the overwhelming mass. maybe. Aquel in the situation would seem to mean the same, except to put distance between the speaker and that person. If lo were used it would make it inanimate as per above.

Again, I would not comment normally, as I have not used this before, and am not familiar with it and am just guessing.

I keep making these stupid answers, Bosque, but I like to try , because then I have to think of new things.. - annierats, Feb 6, 2016

Thanks for your input, Bosque. Your conjecture was very helpful. By the way - I love your name! - ericmshore, Feb 6, 2016

Answer 6

My translation:

Decidí respetar la ingenuidad con la que se expresa todo el que acaba de aprender un idioma que no es el suyo.. I decided to respect the naivety with which all those who have just learnt a new language ( literally, a language which i snot their own).

Naivity here probably means simplicity, i.e, we cannot make complicated sentences. .

El does not refer to la gente ( feminin) it refers to the person who has just learnt the langage. The two languages behave differently here.

And yes, I think you can use ' aque'l instead, but please note that I'm only a learner and I hope a native will comment on this.

My spelling of naivety exists, I have just checked, but Daniela's also exists, the word obviously comes through the French. We have it in Swedish too. - annierats, Feb 6, 2016