haber + de + infinitive = supposed to

Question

I didn't know that haber + de + infinitive is equivalent to "supposed to." I came across this example: María ha de traer un pastel, yo he de traer el helado, y mis amigos han de traer sus discos. Mary is supposed to bring a pie, I am supposed to bring the ice cream, and my friends are supposed to bring their records.

Until stumbling upon this example I was unfamiliar with this type of construction. So, I'm wondering how to use this in other tenses. Suppose, for example, that no one brought what they were supposed to bring. Would it be María había de traer. ..., yo había de traer..., and my friends habían de traer?

Also, could "se supone" be used without changing the meaning? In other words, in the present tense, could we say se supone que María trae... se supone que yo traigo..., and se supone que mis amigos traen...? And in the past tense, could we say se suponía que María traería (or trajera)...se suponía que yo traería (or trajera)...se suponía que mis amigos traerían (or trajeran)...?

Great question, I canot answer it, my answer is only a follow- on observbation. - annierats, Jan 5, 2016

I have never seen haber used before with de in this way only haber +que, eg Hay que lavar los platos = The dishes need to be washed / Someone should wash the dishes - FELIZ77, Jan 5, 2016

Answer 1

I have heard it a lot in music and think it looks elegant. I believe it is a bit weaker than haber que.

here is a previous answer on this site:

Previous thread

The first poster links to a brief article in Spanish.com. The second poster Luis is an 'hispanohablante' native Spanish speaker who lives in Mexico.

Do you have a teacher you can ask? Hay que is a construction everyone learns early on and I cannot remember where I first came across haber/hay de for the first time. In Spanish verbs often change meaning when a preposition is used

Dear God, Mardle, how long we have been on this site! - annierats, Jan 5, 2016

Answer 2

This is not an answer, it is a follow on question:

I can't remember seeing the expression in the past tense, but that means nothing, I miss half of what I hear or read. However I've seen and heard it in the future'' habrá de hacer' ( something must be done) , algo habrá hecho el chico' ( this means, the boy must have done something) although the future is used for the past. I've heard ' Algo habrá de tener' or at least I think so, I was talking about a man who claims poverty but drives a brand-new car and my Spanish friend nodded and said , Sí , algo habrá de tener. ( Yes, he must have something/ a bit of money is implied in this example)

You have previously mused on this topic = see my post but last time 'ducked out' - Mardle, Jan 5, 2016

Thanks Mardle, I had forgotten..Nor am I much wiser now than 4 years ago, I'm sorry to say, although I think the previous question was tener de versus haber de. - annierats, Jan 5, 2016

how would you translate what Mafalda is saying in this cartoon? - malbecblend, Jan 5, 2016

And what if, before we start on doing what we have to do, we start with what we ought to have done already? Somethinglike that? - annierats, Jan 5, 2016

Answer 3

Others have answered your main question very well. As to your question about suponer: I have never heard suponer used in the sense of the English "supposed to" as in "Mary is supposed to bring a pie" (responsibility, obligation).

I have heard of suponer being used in this way and have used it myself. examples can include: I'm supposed to start work at nine (in the morning) = Se supone que tengo que empezar a trabajar a las nueve (de la mañana) - FELIZ77, Jan 5, 2016

Answer 4

Once I again, I will simply steal an answer from Gerald Erichsen, with the disclaimer that I do not know much beyond what is given in this answer:

Do note, the examples include varying tenses:

http://spanish.about.com/od/usingparticularverbs/a/haber_de.htm

Question: I think there's another form of haber, which is haber + de + verb. In one of her songs, Natalia Oreiro, a famous Uruguayan singer, says: (ojal’) 'que la suerte sea suerte y no algo que he de alcanzar." What does she mean exactly? When do I use this special form of haber + de + verb?

Answer: Haber de followed by the infinitive usually means "to have to," "to be necessary," or "to be supposed to," kind of like tener que or haber que, but expressing a much weaker and often vague sense of obligation.

Although the expression is used a lot in some areas, in other places you're more likely to come across it in literature (or song lyrics!).

Here are a few examples of its use:

Ha de trabajar mañana. He needs to work tomorrow.

He de estar a dieta. I need to be on a diet.

¿Por qué habría de salir? Why should she leave?

In the first two examples, the sense of obligation could be less than the English translations suggest; in the third example, the usage suggests a tone of indignation.

Haber de also can express probability in much the same way that "have to" (or sometimes "must") in English can express probability rather than obligation:

La solución al problema ha de ser difícil. The solution to the problem has to be difficult.

Has de ser rica. You must be rich.

As to the song lyrics, here's one possible translation: "that good fortune will be my destiny and not something I have to strive for."

I must have been typing same time as you! - Mardle, Jan 5, 2016

Answer 5

Was this something you read or something you heard? Might it have been "que" instead of "de"? I ask because "Hay que traer vino" = "one must bring wine" or to say it in a more common way, "I must bring wine."

So as "hay" is a form of "haber," it would make sense to me (as a beginner, of course) to be able to say it in the past. So, "You he que traer vino" = "I was supposed to have brought wine."

Disclaimer: I am a beginner, and I may be wrong.