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Might this happen with Spanish?

Might this happen with Spanish?

2
votes

Hello to all my friends here. I hope you all have had a good start to e New Year.

I just read an interesting article about when Sweden did away with the formal "you" conjugated in the third person sometime in the '60s.

Informal Swedes

I wonder if Spanish might follow suit, whether sooner or later? For myself, I'd rather they do away with the informal "tu" form - one less conjugation to remember!! wink

Edit after reading Feliz's post: I do hope everyone realizes i'm not really in favor of doing away with any part of Spanish. That was the function of the smiley face. Indeed, I like a formal way of addressing people due respect or who one doesn't know. It is an easy way of "enforcing" a bit of civility which we seem to be losing these days.

I grew up in the South of the States, where every child was forced to say "m'am" and "sir" when responding to any adult, familiar or not, until the adult excused you from doing so (like me with my nieces and nephews), and even then, dropping the formality was discouraged. In fact, my 27 year old niece still sometimes says "sir" to me even though I excused her from that a long time ago. It is rather nice to hear occasionally, though, and it is an easy way to tell if someone at least has a sense of manners.

On the other hand, my wife is from the UK where they do not generally do that. It seems to me that doing away with the formality of "m'am" and "sir" made young Brits sound almost brash and bold, if not downright rude.

More to the point, I think my using "m'am" and "sir" with my wife's parents made them quite a bit more accepting of a Yank taking their daughter away to the New World.

1469 views
updated Jan 5, 2016
edited by Winkfish
posted by Winkfish
Wink, perhaps many Brits like me were unfortunate enough in our childhood to have had to address some teachers as sir who frankly didn't deserve that respect as they treated many kids really badly and lost our respect When the term sir is spoken... - FELIZ77, Jan 4, 2016
begrudgingly (unwillingly/reluctantly) and in some cases with such resentment ...that it becomes a parody (mockery) of respect, then it really loses its meaning! - FELIZ77, Jan 4, 2016
When I was growing up as a child and at secondary school, there was still an attitude among some older teachers that respect should be automatically given, and some seemed to conveniently forgot that they had to act worthy of that respect! - FELIZ77, Jan 4, 2016
I understand, Feliz. I believe, though, that there is a respect that comes with "the office," so to speak, and then there is another different kind of respect that is earned. - Winkfish, Jan 4, 2016
Totally right on, Wink. There was a story out of World War II that there was an enlisted soldier who refused to salute a Black Officer (Lt. and above) The Office wisely replied, "Salute the Hat,man!" Referring to his position as a commissioned Officer. - Daniela2041, Jan 5, 2016
Are you sure you're not a long lost sister of mine? (You could be my daughter, actually!) ;-) - Winkfish, Jan 5, 2016

4 Answers

4
votes

Wow. This is complicated. In Mexico we do not use the informal plural form. So we only have five to learn. Now obviously four would be even better. But getting rid of the formal singular and plural means that I would have to learn the informal plural. Not good.

So I vote yes, but only if we do away with the informal singular form as well.

updated Jan 4, 2016
posted by gringojrf
I never, never want the "tú" form to disappear. The whole concept is sooo beautiful. But I voted for you anyway. - Daniela2041, Jan 4, 2016
No, Gring, no! Tú is ever so nice and equql, like du in Swedish. It will live on! - annierats, Jan 4, 2016
I agree with You, Annie :) - FELIZ77, Jan 4, 2016
3
votes

Hello Wink,

Interesting question! smile

As somone who speaks Spanish and as a beginner has started to learn to speak Swedish I feel a little qualified to speak, although probably Annierats would be the best person to answer your question as a native Swedish speaker and someone who I am sure speaks Spanish with reasonable proficiency. Daniela, who is a native Spanish teacher or one of the other native Spanish speakers would also have a much better idea than I would as to the future development of their mother-tongue (language) smile

In my view, and I am sorry but I have to respectfully disagree with your line of thinking, I think that it is unlikely and undesirable since in Spanish both the formal usted form and the informal tú serve useful but different functions: the first to show respect to people you do not know and who are in authority and the second to express friendliness and /or greater depth of intimacy in relationships. I would not want to see either disappear! The distinction is both helpful and practical. I particularly like the tú form which is very popular in Spain, particularly amoung younger people. Usted is more common in Latin America.

Should we do away with conjugating verbs in various languages because beginners find it too hard or should the Spanish just use ser and forget about estar because people experience problems with it?! Of course not! wink

I also speak French and the French people use personal pronouns all the time, unlike the Italians and the Spanish who use them only for clarification and emphasis. It would be much easier if only I could persuade the French to stop using them all the time; it would make learning French much easier if they would just follow suit with the Spanish! (I am speaking tongue in cheek) wink

updated Jan 5, 2016
edited by FELIZ77
posted by FELIZ77
Feliz, the Swedish 'ni' did just that too.. - annierats, Jan 4, 2016
Annie, sorry, the Swedish ni did what? I have only had one lesson with a native so far in Swedish (due to financial constraints not lack off interest ) and have not started to really formally conjugate verbs I am using to Duolingo until I can afford - FELIZ77, Jan 4, 2016
some more lessons with Kristina :) - FELIZ77, Jan 4, 2016
Feliz, I must say at this point that I was being a bit facetious in saying we should get rid of any conjugations. I think having a formal version of addressing someone, as opposed to addressing just any friend, is very desirable. It promotes civility. - Winkfish, Jan 4, 2016
Okay, thank you for explaining this, Wink. :) I obviously failed to pick up that you were being facetious - FELIZ77, Jan 4, 2016
Ni is the polite formn, usted, although it behaves exactly like French 'vous' Ok? It is also the 2nd person plural. - annierats, Jan 4, 2016
Thank you very much for your clear explanation, Annie :) - FELIZ77, Jan 4, 2016
The reason the French use personal pronouns is that all the verb forms, though spelled differently sound alike except for the Nous and Vous forms. - Daniela2041, Jan 5, 2016
3
votes

Wink, in Swedish it lasted longer than that' ni' still exists, it just is hardly used any more, my generation is probably the last to have said ' ni' to our great-aunts, teachers and other superhuman persons.. Nowadays it is Hej på dej! But if we were to meet the King in the street? Maybe Hej på dej or maybe Goddag Ers Kungliga Höghet, hur står det till?

updated Jan 5, 2016
edited by annierats
posted by annierats
That must sound so cool. - Daniela2041, Jan 5, 2016
You made my brain hurt with that one!! ;-) - Winkfish, Jan 5, 2016
3
votes

Hi Wink:

In Spain, it's the "usted" form that you hear less and less. Among societal equals, the "tú" form is entered into almost immediately. However with someone to whom you should show respect, like a police officer, doctor, judge, priest etc, the "usted" form is highly recommended. smile

Strangely enough in Argentina "tú" is hardly ever heard. There the familiar form is "vos" with a somewhat modified "vosotros" verb form. Ex. Vos hablás español ¿no? ¿Tenés vos las llaves? etc.

updated Jan 4, 2016
posted by Daniela2041
Quite right, the young rarely use 'usted' here. Sometimes it is used to actually distance yourelf from somebody you're angry with. - annierats, Jan 4, 2016
I can see that would be useful on occasions lol Do the Spanish still use the tu form to deliberately talk down to someone to whom they should really show respect ? - FELIZ77, Jan 4, 2016
Yepp. - annierats, Jan 4, 2016