Is "n" silent when it comes before "l" in spanish pronunciation?

Question

I found on "spanish.about.com" that "n" sounds exatly like "m" when it comes before "f", "p", "b", "v" and "m" in Spanish.

Here is the link Pronouncing the N

But i hear also that native speakers do not pronounce it when it comes before letter "l" in phrases such as "...con las..." or "donde estan las...". I couldn't find any information about this. Can anyone confirm this?

I see you have completed the language part of your profile great! It is also helpful that you have put your location. I assume Russian is your first language. You have my respect learning a new alphabet. - Mardle, Nov 1, 2015

I have now read the article and gone to Word reference a great dictionary where you can listen to recordings the n was almost silent in the Spain recording of immigration but on the alternative Argentinean recording it was sounded - Mardle, Nov 1, 2015

"typo" "iNmigración" I still pronounce the "n" here. - Daniela2041, Nov 1, 2015

I didn't notice the predictive text had 'helped' me until the comment showed and as the choice was delete or leave I left it but thanks for correcting. - Mardle, Nov 1, 2015

As MasonL pointed out it is really just a very soft pronunciation. Now i can hear it. Thank you all for your replies, and i'm sorry if i mislead anyone. - sanek, Nov 1, 2015

Answer 1

I'm Spanish, and live among Mexicans and I'm not conscious of "n" EVER being silent. Maybe in some regions, but I know of none. The first part of your post where it says that "N" morphs into "M" is correct but only before "P" "B/V" or once in a while "M" as in "inmediatamente" although I don't do it that way.

In La Paz the last letter of every word is silent. The paceños really like eating the end of words. - gringojrf, Nov 1, 2015

Gring, You would feel at home here, I've hardly ever heard the letter ' s' pronounced and most endings are eaten... - annierats, Nov 1, 2015

There is a physiological reason for the "n" morphing to "m" before "b/v" and "p" . It's that your lips are closing to say those consonants, and the "m" sound just naturally occurs. - Daniela2041, Nov 1, 2015

As i understand it happens accidentally, and i shouldn't do it on purpose, right? And why did the author of the article mention the letter "f"? - sanek, Nov 1, 2015

With regard to the letter "f" the lips are closing on that one also, and I can see how it happens, I'm careful with my pronunciation because of my students, so I don't do it. - Daniela2041, Nov 1, 2015

And you're right, it does happen sort of accidental because of the lips beginning to close. With the letters "b/v" and "p" it's almost impossible to prevent. - Daniela2041, Nov 1, 2015

Thank you so much for your comments, they are very helpful. - sanek, Nov 1, 2015

Answer 2

Hey! This question has already been answered but I wanted to add a little of what I know. First of all, I disagree with chileno. It is not incorrect to pronounce the 'n' as an 'm' in certain contexts because it's a natural process, which also occurs in English, called assimilation. Assimilation is the process of replacing a sound with another sound under the influence of a third sound which is near to it in the word or sentence.

As Daniela said, /n/ turns into an /m/ before /p/b/ because of the movements of the lips, the place of articulation; the sounds /p/b/ are bilabial (which means you use both of your lips to produce them) /m/ is bilabial too, but /n/ is alveolar (which means your tongue touches your alveolar ridge to produce it) so in rapid speech we naturally produce an /m/ sound, you could say that it's to "save us time when articulating the sounds" but honestly it's just a process that happens naturally and most of us are not aware of this assimilation that we produce. As I said, this occurs in rapid speech, if someone were talking very carefully you would probably hear an /n/

I don't know of this happening before the sound /f/ but /n/ can change when it's preceeding other sounds. For example /g/ and /k/, these are velar sounds (you pronunce them with your tongue touching the back of your throat)

There is a variant of the /n/ that is also velar, which is written like this /?/ this assimilation happens in English too, it's the sound you pronounce in words like thanks or singing. So in rapid speech in Spanish we would pronounce un coche with /?/

There's another process called dentalization, which means that you pronounce a sound that is not dental dentally. This process also exists in English (for example when you say At the... the /t/ in at is articulated dentally) The sound /n/ is alveolar, the sound /ð/ (which is a d sound, like the one in the article 'the') is dental, your tongue touches your teeth to produce it. So, it's kind of like assimilation but here you are not going to change the sound you produce, but you will change the way in which you produce it if that makes sense. To be honest, you don't have to think about it, it will come naturally and if it doesn't, don't worry because it is not that important. It's just something that we do without realizing, and if you ask most people they won't even know they do that.

Thank you Gabo 77. I was going to get into something like what you wrote, but decided against it. It looks like you had classis in linguistics and phonology too. :) - Daniela2041, Nov 1, 2015

Read the edit in my entry - chileno, Nov 2, 2015

antes de la p o la b sieMpre sonará como M , sencillamente porque no hay palabras , al menos en español, que lleven una n ante éstas consonantes. - 000a35ff, Nov 2, 2015

Si, pero esto no solo se aplica a palabras, también en oraciones. Por ejemplo en "un beso" uno puede pronunciar "um beso" o "un pintor" podría ser pronunciado "um pintor". - Gabo77, Nov 2, 2015

El sonido cambia bajo la influencia de otro que esté cerca (ya sea en el sonido que tenga al lado en la misma palabra o en la palabra que le sigue) - Gabo77, Nov 2, 2015

Answer 3

It doesn't matter... whether Spanish from Spain or Latin America. to pronounce n as an m is incorrect. Does it happen? Yes it does.

If you need help, we can meet on Skype.

Edit:

I base this on the way how I was taught in school. Grammatically, you can't have combinations of nb, np, mv

The following are all OK and on the first two you can't put an N befor the p or the b. On the third one you can't put an m before the v. These are orthographic rules.

Lámpara.

Tambor

Envidia

I was taught also about the difference in pronunciation of B and V, but that was a good theory, since I still mixed them up in real life, until i came to the US, that is.

(Sometimes I catch myself mixing them up, though)

Yes, in my country there are people who will say "Voy a comprar paM (instead of paN) but that shows only their humble and ignorant ways. That's all.

Edit2:

In the case of caramba, there might be people who are going to write it correctly or caramVa. But when pronounced i have yet to hear somebody say caramVa (V like in English.

If the person writes it caraNba, i have yet to hear that pronounced....

Whereas paM instead of pan or varco instead of Barco whether written or pronounced, those are very real for some people, as I indicated before.

"en vez de" "tienen pan" "caramba" ("b"and "v" have the same sound in Spanish. Even though the spelling rules say as you have stated, the "b" and "v" are still pronounced the same in Spanish which sometimes presents a spelling problem. - Daniela2041, Nov 2, 2015

Sometimes my latino studends will write "en bes de" or "hablava" or Pedro tubo que hacer algo. - Daniela2041, Nov 2, 2015

I hit "flag" by mistake. I was trying for "delete" - Daniela2041, Nov 2, 2015

typo, "students" - Daniela2041, Nov 2, 2015

Check my other edit please - chileno, Nov 2, 2015

Answer 4

Welcome to the forum Can you add your Spanish level to your profile as it helps with answers. I have assumed your English is fluent - perhaps you can add that too.

Are you learning Spanish as pronounced in Spain or elsewhere? I hadn't heard about the pronunciation before certain consonants but assumed it would be softer. Our teacher recently discussed b,/v and how the pronunciation was different between vowels whether in the word or when a word starting with the letter was proceeded with a vowel.

Certainly when speaking fluently words are run together.

I look forward to an answer from a native.

I'm not fluent in English, and still have a lot of work to do. As for Spanish - I didn't decide what dialect to choose yet, but i think i will focus more on Latin America. - sanek, Nov 1, 2015

The pronunciation is not very different and whichever you learn you will be understood. Buena suerte. - Mardle, Nov 1, 2015

Answer 5

The "n" is sometimes very, very, softly spoken so as to almost be unheard, but it is pronounced.