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Spanish verbs are not important ¡!

Spanish verbs are not important ¡!

7
votes

I've spent not inconsiderable time over the last 12 months trying to learn the intricacies of Spanish verbs only to arrive at the conclusion that they're not so important after all.

Why not ? Is this true ? Surely not... Well, I suppose it depends on context.

I recently spent a fortnight in Spain as a holidaymaker. I made a point of trying to speak Spanish at least once a day (other than saying 'hola' to everyone I saw), and I think I achieved this. The range of my Spanish included: (1) Reporting problems with the apartment to hotel reception, then describing the problems in more detail to the maintenance guy (on no fewer than four separate occasions over two weeks grrr ¡!); (2) Visiting the local farmacia, describing my symptoms & asking for a recommendation; (3) Taking my suegra to the local peluquería to introduce her, book an appointment & describe what she wanted; (4) Asking directions; (5) Small-talk with taxistas; (5) Reporting lost property to the hotel reception; (6) Telling our waiter it was the wedding anniversary of my wife & me; (7) Making puns in Spanish with said waiter, which elicited the response 'es un buen dicho'; and (8) Persuading the girl in the ticket-stall at the local aqua park to let me in free the day after a family visit so I could return to the gift shop to buy a toy my daughter had spotted the day before when we hadn't enough cash leftover to buy it (my little girl hadn't shut up about it ever since).

I think in all these encounters I only had to use any tense other than the present on one or two occasions, and they were when I had lost something upon which occasion I used the past perfect, and again when I returned to the aqua park.

I'm not saying that learning all the tenses and conjugations is a waste of time, far from it. However, in terms of practical day-to-day use, you can get by pretty far with only the present tense. Sure, it's handy to have an awareness of tenses and conjugations, but they're perhaps not so important as sometimes claimed, while other aspects of language can be far more useful.

For me that most useful aspect of language was vocabulary (including the infinitive forms of verbs, for sure). For example, when I asked for directions, the words that I caught on to were 'tienda de relojes a la izquierda'. I'm sure the guy I had asked for directions used verbs, and no doubt conjugated them, but for me, they were just, well, er... 'verbage'. It was the signposts that got me where I needed to go (and 'cajero automático' another piece of handy vocab that enabled me to ask the relevant question).

Of course, I'm describing relatively basic tourist requirements. I'm sure if you wish to work in a Spanish-speaking environment, you need a much better grasp of verbs. However, even when telling a story that took place in the past, I'm inclined to opt for the present tense. I got into trouble with this a few weeks ago when I tried to tell my Spanish tutor a story about an incident that had occurred at uni years ago, and I decided to tell it in the past tense (as, naturally, I would've done in English). I found myself making a right fool of myself, mucking up all the tenses and conjugations. However, in retrospect, I reckon I could've told the same story much more effectively and more impressively in the present tense. Once you've established you're talking about the past, you can readily switch to the present (even in English) and it still makes sense. In fact, it might event make the story seem more prescient and compelling ¡! Just a thought... wink

5213 views
updated Jul 28, 2015
edited by Faldaesque
posted by Faldaesque
Again, you need to talk to me....everything will fit in, well hopefully. - chileno, Jul 27, 2015

9 Answers

6
votes

As a feisty Yank Sheila (that's what Ray calls me) I'm going to have to disagree that verb tenses are unimportant. You need at least four to get by. Present tense to tell what's going on now, the preterite (or present perfect in Spain) to tell what happened yesterday. And some sort of future tense to talk about what will happen tomorrow. Even if you use the "Ir+a+infinitive" construction you can get by. If you just use infinitives or the present tense you will sound like Tarzan in some of the old 'Johnny Weismuller movies" Ugh, Tarzan go now and fight crocodile. Jane no come with me. It too dangerous. Cheetah no come either, eat too many bananas-get too fat.

The only language that I know of that can get by without verb tenses is Chinese. According to a Chinese girl I had in my class, the verb tenses or lack there of are handled with adverbs in the following manner. We'll be demonstrating by talking about eating Hamburgers.

Present tense. I eat hamburgers or I am eating hamburgers. "Me eating hambugersrs now"

Past tense. I ate hamburgers, or I was eating hamburgers. "Me eating hamburgers yesterday (or last week, etc.)

Future tense. I will eat hamburgers. "Me eating hamburgers tomorrow or next week,etc."

Conditional. I would eat hamburgers. "Me eating hamburgers maybe tomorrow, etc.

One of the beauties yea, the soul of the Spanish language is the verb system. As a child in Spain I didn't get it all. I had to go to the University in the US and be taught by native-speaking scholars all about the beauty of this part of the language.

So I just had to state my disagreement, I hope I won't get beat up too severely by the above participating members.

Los verbos ingleses son facilísimos.

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Spanish verbs are a little complicated.

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updated Jul 28, 2015
edited by Daniela2041
posted by Daniela2041
You get my vote for Tarzan speak and for the Spanish verb tree diagram. lol. - gringojrf, Jul 28, 2015
Agreed! - Kiwaiano, Jul 28, 2015
Everyone has a point here. Your's is just as important, maybe more so. ♥♥ - rac1, Jul 28, 2015
Love this, Dani :))) - sanlee, Jul 28, 2015
6
votes

Thank you. I agree that in verbal conversation "getting the tense right" is of little importance. As there is an immediate opportunity to correct any misunderstanding. At the same time vocabulary is of critical importance because without words, and of course, an understanding of the meaning of the words it is all just gibberish.

Now reading and writing is a completely different matter. Here there is no opportunity for immediate feedback and correction of misunderstandings. Here grammar becomes much more important.

There are many people here and everywhere that have trouble speaking Spanish for fear of making "silly" mistakes. Stuff like using the wrong tense or person of a verb. Using de instead of a, or por when it should be para. Get over it. Get out there and start talking. Make a million and one mistakes and at the same time gain confidence that as Falda says it is not all that important when it comes to communication.

updated Jul 27, 2015
posted by gringojrf
I'm in the United States and never have had the opportunity to just get out and talk Spanish. It would be like riding a bike for the first time. Doesn't matter that I've spent recent years learning to read and write some Spanish. - Sassette, Jul 27, 2015
...I love gringojrf's recommended attitude. It's courageous to get out there and talk, make mistakes, and get a little confidence eventually. If you're not living in a Spanish speaking country there's only so far you can progress, I think :) - Sassette, Jul 27, 2015
Sassette, where do you live, if you don't mind sharing? Here we have a lot of spanish speakers, but it's not as easy as one would think to go out and just start speaking Spanish. I've found a latino market where I can do it a bit; there's a woman who - Winkfish, Jul 27, 2015
works at our local gas station on weekends from Honduras, and once I'd seen her a few times, explained that I was trying to learn Spanish, and so we chat a little on weekends. It is hard, but it can be done. Hang in there! - Winkfish, Jul 27, 2015
Sassette, not knowing where you live but with 40 million Spanish speakers in the US I bet there are places Try tutors, not online but face to face, look for facebook groups, go o the community colleges and universities and post on the bulletin boards etc - gringojrf, Jul 27, 2015
You are looking for conversation classes not grammar classes. As you seem to have studied enough to read and write and now need to talk and hear the language. - gringojrf, Jul 27, 2015
yes, find a conversation class, or just somebody who will spend a few minutes talking, even if you have to pay them a little. Or buy them coffee.. - annierats, Jul 27, 2015
5
votes

Kiwaiano, I see by your profile that you are truly bilingual. I respect that. Did you learn English/Spanish as a child or an adult? I don't know which is your native language, so for this purpose I am going to assume Spanish is your native language. If not just reverse all references to Spanish/English.

Many here on SD are very good at the reading and writing of Spanish and have a very good grasp on the Spanish grammar, yet cannot speak the language. Mostly out of fear and lack of practice. If you learned English as an adult then you went through a learning curve. Some learn quickly some not so quickly, I am on the very slow end of the curve. It has nothing to do with a lack of respect for the language or its culture. In fact I would say that those who try, even with lots of errors are expressing their respect for the language by exposing themselves to potential ridicule and humiliation, but try anyway. My advantage is my willingness to talk, make mistakes, learn from them, then make the same mistake again and learn again.

I truly believe that the one thing that allows me to live in Spanish on a daily basis is not Spanish grammar but Spanish vocabulary. I know a lot of words. I can hear those words when other talk to me. I understand a lot of words and can call them up quickly. And when I get confused with a complex sentence structure I am willing to resort to using infinitives of verbs to keep the flow going.

So bottom line. I would rather be able to talk to anyone in my less than perfect Spanish than not be able to talk to anyone out of fear of making mistakes or not understanding (lack of vocabulary).

My Spanish is nowhere near perfect. Yet living in Mexico and speaking Spanish daily I receive several compliments on my Spanish each week from people who do not know me and have no reason or need to give me those compliments. They respect my ability to use their language even though my usage is flawed, and will always be flawed as not all of us have the potential to be truly bilingual.

updated Aug 5, 2015
posted by gringojrf
Absolutely!! : - rac1, Jul 28, 2015
5
votes

Wink, I know what you mean by your distinction between getting by and truly discussing. That said, I've actually found it pretty straightforward to discuss politics, philosophy and more abstract concepts in French, and to a more limited extent, in Spanish, perhaps because (a) when it comes to more esoteric subjects, the vocabulary is largely very similar between English and the Romance languages, and (b) I really don't think verb tenses are so important when discussing concepts of universal temporal relevance.

Gringo, aye, of course, you're right about reading. That said, when reading at least you have the time to read at your own pace and to re-read (and even to look up a dictionary ¡!).

Of course, I was being ever so slightly deliberately provocative in my choice of title. That said, I do believe there's some truth in it, and if you can make a joke in someone else's language and make them smile without using complex verb tenses and conjugations, then you've made real human connection that's worth more, in my opinion, than showing off your impressive knowledge of the grammar of their language.

Regarding opportunities to use Spanish, my experience of Spain is that many tourist destinations are geared up for English. This means that unless your Spanish is already very good, you can find it hard to realise opportunities to practise and improve it. Indeed, in some areas some native English-speakers live and even work in Spain for years without learning the language. Most Spaniards who work in this kind of environment are there to service the tourist industry directly or indirectly, but in any event to make money, not small-talk. Many of them can speak enough English well enough to be able to halt your Spanish and turn the conversation around to English (grrr). Some of them speak English very well indeed. Some not so well, but even they probably speak what English they do possess almost every day. It's a form of contextualised English, i.e. they have a register of set phrases and vocab that are useful for their particular role in the tourist industry, whether that be waiting tables (our waiter was able to recite the word for 'toothpick' in about six different languages, for example), selling boat charters, or hustling knock-off sunglasses, handbags and other kinds of contraband down by the la playa ('I get you real high, man').

However, last July (2014) we went to a little town in rural Spain where the hotel staff spoke virtually no English. For me, that kind of environment is much more useful for learning Spanish, and probably a little more relaxed and friendly too... grin

updated Aug 5, 2015
posted by Faldaesque
:) - ian-hill, Jul 27, 2015
It is easy for me to see the difference. I live in the spoken language of Spanish on a daily basis, yet here on SD I have all kinds of grammatical problems and look up a lot of things. Yet I have no problem of speaking./listening to verbal Spanish. - gringojrf, Jul 27, 2015
But I credit a lot to my vocabulary. And as I often say Vocabulary is King. Without it you are dead in the water. - gringojrf, Jul 27, 2015
There was nothing, "slight" in your title. Lol - rac1, Jul 28, 2015
5
votes

I agree with our mate from Scotland.

A while ago I posted a story in English about an annoying mosquito on here using only the simple present tense. I was asking for a Spanish translation - then I intended posting the same story using only the simple past tense - and then using all tense forms - perfect - imperfect - continuous etc. plus Modals.

It never got much attention desafortunadamente. smile So I gave up.

updated Jul 27, 2015
edited by ian-hill
posted by ian-hill
I protest, I tried very hard with that mosquito! Well, I didn't know there were so masny tenses then, there is that.. - annierats, Jul 27, 2015
I seem to remember you did Annie - but not many others did. :) - ian-hill, Jul 27, 2015
4
votes

To me, that's the difference between communicating to get by and communicating to truly talk and discuss. I guess they are two ends of the spectrum.

Here in New Orleans, of course we get a good number of foreign tourists, and we have quite a large population of Latin Americans for whom English is a real struggle, if they even speak any. So when I get a question from someone like, "Where located store for fruit?" I can direct them, and I'm happy to do so.

On the other hand, when I was last in London and caught a taxi to Heathrow Airport, my driver was a very nice Sikh man, and very talkative. He had no problem understanding where I was going, what terminal, and what airline. But then he started talking about politics. I had trouble understanding all of his propositions, as his grammar (including using proper tenses) wasn't that good when trying to explain more complex ideas that "What airline?"

Is it good or bad whether you know a language well or not? No. It is what it is. I feel, though, that if you really want to have a good, deep discussion with someone, a decent handle on proper usage in the language you are using is important.

So as to your original question, do we need verbs and tenses? Are they important? As you implied, it depends on what you want the language for.

updated Jul 27, 2015
posted by Winkfish
Say 'Hola" for all of us to rac1 if you ever see her around in New Orleans :) - Sassette, Jul 27, 2015
You know, it would be great to meet her, but I certainly don't want to intrude on someone's privacy. Maybe one day, we'll both happen to be in the same Spanish restaurant or market, and we'll both be the most gringo-ish people speaking Spanish!! ;-) - Winkfish, Jul 27, 2015
3
votes

As much as I understand your point I would have to strongly disagree. I guess it depends on what you want to settle for.

I think taking the time to learn Spanish correctly communicates a great level of respect for the language and culture you're learning. To me, to say that verbs or tenses don't really matter, communicates a certain level of disrespect for the language and culture; and to those who strive to learn the language well.

But I truly do understand your point, and like others said, if your goal is to just get by... there's a lot truth in your post. Don't get me wrong, I know I'm just on the extreme opposite side of the spectrum and care a lot about learning Spanish correctly. I'm sure you care as well, but are just sharing something you noticed.

updated Jul 28, 2015
posted by Kiwaiano
Are you respecting English by splitting its infinitives... ? ;-) - Faldaesque, Jul 27, 2015
Without verb tenses you would sound like Tarzan. "Me Tarzan, you Jane, him "Cheeta" - Daniela2041, Jul 27, 2015
Hve you ever heard how Glaswegians speak... ? ¡! ;-) - Faldaesque, Jul 28, 2015
2
votes

As already said, I was being ever so slightly deliberately provocative in my choice of title.

This anti-verbal post seems to have put a proverbial cat among some proverbial pigeons (please pardon the pun). Accordingly, I would like to deal with a few issues (heckles) that it has raised:

- That I don't respect Spanish: For the record, I don't respect Spanish, but I don't disrespect it any more than English or any other language. In my view a language is a means to an end, that end being communication. People might deserve respect if they merit it, and cultures too, but language itself... ? If people were to tiptoe around language like it were some holy shrine, it would never evolve. Spanish wouldn't be Spanish, it would still be Latin, or some ancient proto-Latin. That said, I do acknowledge that in order to exercise this means to an end successfully to arrive at said end, it is appropriate to exercise the means properly, i.e. to speak the language well.

- That I'm settling for getting by: Well, I'm not sure this is fair. However, if I don't start at a 'getting by' stage, then I'll never reach any more advanced stage. I could sit indoors with my SpanishDict and Michel Thomas and Big Scary Book of Verbs and fret fret fret about it, 'oh there are so many conjugations, and oh there are so many tenses, and oh there's the subjunctive again aaarrrgggghhh, and oh what a lot of irregular verbs, and oh I don't want to make a mistake or folk'll think I'm a dummy, and oh what if I don't understand exactly what they're saying...'. If I took this abstract approach I reckon I'd be about 127 years old before thinking I'd 'mastered' Spanish verbs, then I'd set off outside, on my zimmerframe, and discover (a) I've never actually heard anyone speak real Spanish so don't understand it; and (b) The verb forms have all changed in the last few decades anyway because folk don't respect the language enough (you know, folk growing up using the language every day like teenagers and university professors who decide that it should be diría instead of deciría, based on what teenagers actually say in the street because they can't be bothered pronouncing the -ec- bit (pah, they're so disrespectful)).

- That I don't understand the importance of verbs: In my day job I use English a lot, and I particularly use a lot of written English where sometimes it can be extremely important to say what you mean and mean what you say... very clearly. So, I do get it that verbs are important, and that there are very many subtle differences among the various tenses and conjugations and moods in Spanish verbs. For the record I actually find Spanish verbs highly intriguing and enjoy the beauty of their logic. I just don't respect them. However, there's a world of a difference between sitting in a dusty office concocting ultra-precise written statements for business or law or accountancy (or whatever the heck it is that I do), on one hand, and, on the other, having a chat in the street with some friends. And I'm sure Spanish, like English, is a more precise language in its written form than in its spoken form. Any language that contains the two distinct verbs forms, for example, quería and querría must be... wink

updated Aug 5, 2015
edited by Faldaesque
posted by Faldaesque
I don't think anyone was directly accusing you of any of this. But the nature of your post of course brought out defenses for not taking these ideas too far, in either direction. All in all it was good discussion. - Kiwaiano, Jul 28, 2015
Yes, actually it was a good discussion. :) - rac1, Jul 28, 2015
2
votes

Gringojrf, you nail the other side of the spectrum. I also agree that you're better off speaking poorly than not speaking at all... that would be me in an extreme case(I was a bit quieter in my first two years). I just believe strongly in a lot of work going into both sides. Go for it with what you know, be bold, communicate to the best of your ability... but never stop studying, learning, and growing. You'll see this in my other posts that I'm all about studying and learning with as many tools as possible, for as long as possible.

Learning slowly, or being on the slow end of the learning curve is not disrespectful. I just didn't love this idea of "Spanish verbs are not important ¡!". Though I can appreciate what he's communicating, it's not my style.

P.S. English is my native tongue. I started learning Spanish as an adult and will probably continue for years if not decades.

P.P.S. Gringojrf, from reading your profile description, I would say you're fluent. As per my old thread, fluent, proficient, and native tongue.

updated Jul 28, 2015
edited by Kiwaiano
posted by Kiwaiano
That makes sense. - rac1, Jul 28, 2015