Subjunctive matters...

Question

I take back what I may have said before about the subjunctive not really making any difference. I now assert that it only mostly doesn't make any difference. Here's a usage that I recently learnt that makes a subtle difference, using aunque:

Iré allí aunque hay demasiada gente = I'll go even although there are too many people

Iré allí aunque haya demasiada gente = I'll go even although there might be too many people

Here in English the subjunctive is rendered by might or alternatively if could be used...

I learned that "aunque" means "even if" when used with the subjunctive and "even though" when used with the indicative. I don't think we ever say "even although" in English. - jtaniel, Jun 4, 2015

'Even although' is v.common in British English & means 'even if'... ;-) - Faldaesque, Jun 4, 2015

Even though, Falda, I've never heard anybody say 'even although' , although I suppose 'though' is short for although.. - annierats, Jun 4, 2015

It is, & I say it & I'm sure plenty others say it up here at the other end of the country... ;-) - Faldaesque, Jun 4, 2015

"Even although"... hmmm... apparently now I have to learn English as well as Spanish. - jtaniel, Jun 4, 2015

Well, God only knows what's up your part of the country Falda. Or your skirts.. Anyway, I think the subjunctive in this instance is more about how you feel about the matter, see Gringo's answer. - annierats, Jun 4, 2015

I'm with u Falda, we say even though all the time, I'm not sure what's up with the rest of the world but we definitely speak the queens English lol - Kiwi-Girl, Jun 6, 2015

:-) of course, you realise most NZ folk are descended from Scots... - Faldaesque, Jun 6, 2015

Answer 1

Without the subjunctive after "aunque", it is a fact.

With the subjunctive after "aunque", it is unknown.

Think about these two sentences in English:

I will travel to England next week even though it rains a lot. Does it rain a lot in England? Yes. But I am still going to travel there next week.

I will travel to England next week even if it rains a lot. Will it rain a lot next week in England? Who knows, but I am still going to travel there next week, whether it rains or not.

Here are the two sentences in Spanish:

Voy a viajar a Inglaterra la semana que viene aunque llueve mucho. (fact)

Voy a viajar a Inglaterra la semana que viene aunque llueva mucho. (unknown)

Answer 2

Here's a little extra on the subject

Excellent sentiment. - gringojrf, Jun 6, 2015

Answer 3

Just a silly question. I agree 100% with your position but have to ask. Your two choices.. "there are" or "there might be" too many people; does it really make a difference in your decision. For me, not. If the possibility exists then I am not going. I think the distinction here is a fine line and either one will be understood.

Yes, it is more how you feel about it, if you are not going to go, use the subjunctive! - annierats, Jun 4, 2015

Answer 4

This is worth another round , I like many members find this unfathomable.

Answer 5

Falda:

Remember what gringo states and also that "there might be" = pudiera haber.