Le / Lo / La... As You

Question

I'm pretty sure I've read somewhere about some divergence in Spanish usage between le & lo (& la), but there are so many threads about the various uses of these pronouns on Spanishdict that I'm having difficulty in finding what I want.

It's to do with the use of le / lo / la as a direct pronoun form for usted. Today in my Pimsleur course, 'I can take you there' was translated as 'Puedo llevarla allí' (speaking to a woman), whereas I would have said 'le' for 'you' (both genders) but 'lo' for 'him' / 'la' for 'her'.

When I put it into the S D translator it gives me 'le'.

If anyone can explain this or link me to a previous relevant thread, I would appreciate it.

:-0

I am not quite sure what you are talking about- is this it?: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leísmo - bosquederoble, Mar 30, 2015

I believe that Pimsleur favors the Latin American Spanish. I bought the introductory course (4 tapes) to see if it would help with my teaching. It was Latin American. - Daniela2041, Mar 31, 2015

Aye, Bosque... 'Leísmo' is the word I was trying to remember, thanks :-) - Faldaesque, Mar 31, 2015

Isn't English just great? Only one "you". - ian-hill, Mar 31, 2015

Up in Scotland folk differentiate between 'you' singular & 'yous' plural (+ there are archaic forms, 'ye', 'thou', 'thee' & even 'du' (Shetland)), but by & large, aye, it's great ;-) - Faldaesque, Mar 31, 2015

I almost forgot the American 'y'all'... ;-) - Faldaesque, Mar 31, 2015

Answer 1

In Spain the use of "le" as a direct object is not considered incorrect when talking to people. They say "Dios le bendiga" (God bless you to both genders.) Even in most of Latin America the say in the stores for example, "En qué puedo servirle" "How may I help you,

One usage mystifies me though. Why do we say "¡Pégale!" for "Hit it" when referring to a base ball? Sometimes I'm just as mystified by some of the things that are said in Spanish as those said in English.

You are? Oh good there's hope for all of us learners then. :) - ian-hill, Mar 31, 2015

¡Si! Me choca estas cosas... voy a sentir como experto en física cuántica cuando averiguo como explicar esto. - Kiwaiano, Mar 31, 2015

Con "¡Pégale!" tal vez pudieras decir que el pelota es el objeto indirecto y el bate es el objeto directo (asumido), lo cual vas a usar para pegar a la pelota. ¿Qué piensas? - - Kiwaiano, Mar 31, 2015

I would think the ball is the direct object, because you are hitting the ball. You're only using the bat. Now, if you said you were placing the bat on the ball, then the bat would be the direct object. I(My brain is starting to hurt.) - Winkfish, Mar 31, 2015

From RAE: Incorrección consistente en emplear la forma le o les para el acusativo masculino singular o plural cuando el pronombre no se refiere a personas, o para el acusativo femenino singular o plural. - 005faa61, Mar 31, 2015

Answer 2

My understanding was that if it is a direct object (I can take you), you would use "lo" or "la" depending on the gender. If it is an indirect object (I will give [to] you a gift), you would use "le" for both genders.

Now, I have heard of "leismo" which, as I understand it, is the tendency of people to use "le" instead of "lo" or "la" - which would be incorrect, but it's done a lot. ( I have visions of my father saying, "Back in MY day, we would NEVER have spoken like that!!")

By the way, are you on to Level 2 now?

Aye, I'm on level 2, thanks. I just completed lesson 4. For various reasons there was a hiatus of a few days in the time I could spend on it, but I'm really enjoying it :-) - Faldaesque, Mar 31, 2015

Answer 3

From memory (which is often sieve-like, in my case), I seem to recollect that the Michel Thomas course teaches 'le' as a gender-neutral form of D.O. pronoun, yet MT (like Pimsleur) is (mainly) LA-based. That said, the MT course was devised by Michel Thomas himself, who was European, not a native-Spanish speaker, & I suspect probably exposed to other European Romance languages before he learned Spanish.

Maybe I'll just use 'te' with everyone

As long as you're able to buy a beer, does it really matter? ;-) - Winkfish, Mar 31, 2015

All you really need for that in any language is a bar, a smile, your finger & some cash... ;-) - Faldaesque, Mar 31, 2015

Yeah, I won't ask about what you do with the finger!! - Winkfish, Apr 1, 2015

Answer 4

Thanks, everyone.

This makes sense now. 'Leísmo' was the term I'd read before, although I couldn't remember it, and I wasn't sure which way round it works, i.e. LA/European.

Although I recently commented that I find LA pronunciation easier, in respect of this particular grammar nuance, the European use of 'le' as a gender neutral form of direct object pronoun for 'usted' makes more sense to my ear, & I guess I'll probably continue using it even if Pimsleur continues teaching 'lo' & 'la'.

Pimsleur does very much seem LA-based (at least the LA version of the course, which has 5 levels; there is a 'Castellano' (European) version, which has only 2 levels).

Yesterday in one of the lessons they introduced 'manejar' for 'to drive', which I'd heard before, but I was more familiar with 'conducir', which again feels more natural to my ear (maybe because I'm used to the French, 'conduir').

I suppose I may end up with a funny mix of LA/European pronunciation, vocabulary & grammar, but so long as I can make myself understood and understand in return, it'll be a decent enough start

Hm, you got me thinking. I was going to say that such a mix wouldn't be any funnier than a mix of British and American English. But now I'm wondering if it isn't in fact a more complicated issue. - Manity, Mar 31, 2015

I know, it's weird. When I speak back to the Pimsleur discs I tend to ceceo a lot, even though the discs don't ceceo at all & I actually find ceceo harder to understand when I hear it...hmm... - Faldaesque, Mar 31, 2015

Oh, you should be at our house when my wife (Scot) and I (N'Awlins) talk - neither of us sounds like where we are originally from!! Between hood and bonnet, boot and trunk, garbage can and rubbish bin, ... No wonder our friends get confused! ;-) - Winkfish, Mar 31, 2015

Answer 5

I use "le" for the D.O. all the time. To me it distinguishes people from objects that get "lo/la".

Also it saves me having to think about gender. One "le" fits all. I wish there were a lot more gender nuetral words in Spanish. Oh well!

I'm with you... ;-) - Faldaesque, Mar 31, 2015