Present Subjunctive or Future Subjunctive? "cuánto más lo sepas/supieres"

Question

"Bueno, sé muy bien cuántos errores se puede cometer al principio del aprendizaje, pero al escuchar y leer más, aprenderás con facilidad, porque el idioma se hará mucho más fácil cuánto más lo supieres (cuánto más lo sepas)."

I know that the future subjunctive isn't used in common speech anymore, but is it correct to use it in this context?

I agree with Txustaboy's answer, but using future subjunctive would still be grammatically correct even though we don´t use it anymore in common speech - 005faa61, Feb 3, 2015

Hm, so is it really correct to use the fut. subjunctive in that sentence even though it's not used anymore, or is it not correct? I think it's correct, but FELIZ77 says it's not. I wish it it could explained exactly why it's correct or incorrect. - 00fa22c5, Feb 3, 2015

I did not exactly say that it was incorrect but that it is obsolete and not used anymore!.I am sorry If I had given you the impression that it was grammatically incorrect.I was simply trying to say that it is not used in everyday speech anymore!!:) - FELIZ77, Feb 3, 2015

Answer 1

My try:

Bueno, sé muy bien cuántos errores se pueden cometer al principio del aprendizaje, pero cuanto más escuches y leas, con mayor facilidad aprenderás, porque el aprendizaje se te hará mucho más fácil cuánto más sepas."

:) - FELIZ77, Feb 3, 2015

why is "lo sepas" wrong? "Lo" refers to "el idioma", the language is going to get easier the more you know it. - 00fa22c5, Feb 3, 2015

One more thing: I wrote "se puede" on purpose instead of "se pueden" because I meant it in the general sense like, "It is possible to commit errors. (se puede cometer errores)" not "Errors can be committed. (errores se pueden cometer)" - 00fa22c5, Feb 3, 2015

You are right Sapphire :), but I had to think a lot to realise XD - txustaboy, Feb 3, 2015

Answer 2

Yes, the future subjucrtive in Spanish is more or less obsolete in terms of every day speech. It has been replaced by the present subjunctive in daily conversation

The future subjunctve is really only used in literary works, such as poetry, classic literature such as Don Quijote of La Mancha, and legal documents. There may be one or two other situations where it is used.

I have learnt this from a knowledgeable native teacher called Lazarus who used to take part i ths forum mainly by answering complex questions about grammar. I f I can find any of his posts about whether the future subjunctive in Spanish is used any more, I will add the link.

So, in answer to your question:

Present Subjunctive or Future Subjunctive? "cuánto más lo sepas/supieres"

You would / should use present subjunctive here not future subjunctive

In situations where you need to use the subjunctive to convey a future meaning, the present subjunctive is used.

I hope this helps

Thanks for the reply, but even though it's not used today, why is it gramatically wrong? Would it be wrong to use the fut. subjunctive in my sentence five hundred years ago? - 00fa22c5, Feb 3, 2015

Grammatically speaking, I 'sm sure that it would be understood, at least by educated people such as native Spanish teachers, university professors etc...and people of the older generation - FELIZ77, Feb 3, 2015

but it is not commonly used. Apart from the fact it is has become more or less obsolete - FELIZ77, Feb 3, 2015

I do not know why it would be wrong; it would be considered strange, perhaps even out of place - FELIZ77, Feb 3, 2015

So is it completely grammatically correct to use it my sentence, regardless of whether it's used anymore or not? Thanks for your help. :) - 00fa22c5, Feb 3, 2015

Yes, i think that Julian Chivi is correct, that it is grammatically correct but could be viewed as strange /odd in everyday speech! :) - FELIZ77, Feb 3, 2015

I will check this last point with my native Spanish teacher on Skype next monday when I have my next class ;) You are welcome, Sapphire :) - FELIZ77, Feb 3, 2015

I am not a grammar expert in Spanish or any language but you don't need to be if you are just willing to learn from thos who are! :) - FELIZ77, Feb 3, 2015

I disagree with all of you :), I think that is not possible to use future subjunctive here - txustaboy, Feb 3, 2015

Txusta boy I said in my post that Sapphire should use the prseent subjunctive a. I am going to check with my native Spanish teacher in my class on Monday about whether the future subjunctive is grammatically wrong,either 1. in Sapphire's sentence and 2 - FELIZ77, Feb 3, 2015

2 to use future subjunctive at all (any more) in modern writings. - FELIZ77, Feb 3, 2015

Well, I know that it's still used in law & literature, and like formal things, like the Bible. But I like using it because I think it adds another level of coolness to Spanish. I just want to know if it's actually right to use it in this specific context. - 00fa22c5, Feb 3, 2015

That is, is it grammatically correct to write "cuánto más lo supieres" even though it's outdated? Or is it just straight up wrong? Like, if I used the fut. subjunctive form in this context 500 years ago, would it be wrong? - 00fa22c5, Feb 3, 2015

Sapphire, it's no good going round thinking it 'cool' to be outdated, it will just sound stupid to natives. - annierats, Feb 3, 2015

I don't consider it "cool" to be outdated. I just think that the future subjunctive adds more precision and depth to Spanish. And it doesn't sound stupid. - 00fa22c5, Feb 3, 2015

La mitad de la gente que lea tu frase con el futuro de subjuntivo no va a entenderla, y la otra mitad va a pensar que has salido de un libro de leyes o de uno escrito hace cientos de años. Con el resto de tiempos verbales ya tenemos suficiente precisión. - Cordobesa, Feb 3, 2015

Me interesan todas las fases de idiomas y todas las maneras de decir cosas, pero lo importante cuando hablando y escribiendo es comunicar ideas claramente, por tanto no lo usaré con personas que no lo entiendan o entendieren. :) - 00fa22c5, Feb 4, 2015

Pero empeñarse en utilizar un tiempo que el 99'99% de los españoles desconoce no tiene ningún sentido. Además es un tiempo que no se puede usar en una conversción normal. - txustaboy, Feb 4, 2015

Vale, pero no me empeño de usarlor, sino que me gusta oir o leer construcciones gramáticas que lo usan. Por ejemplo, eschusa este: http://wordprokids.org/bibles/app/audio/6/20/2.mp3 Me sueña mucho mejor con el futuro de subjunctivo. - 00fa22c5, Feb 4, 2015

Si estás interesado/a en leer o escuchar literatura española, está muy bien que conozcas esa forma verbal. Pero sonaría muy gracioso si oyéramos hablar a alguien así ahora... Sería como un viajero de una máquina del tiempo. :)) - Cordobesa, Feb 4, 2015

ha, entiendo, entiendo. Jamás lo voy a usar. - 00fa22c5, Feb 4, 2015

Pero no lo vas a usar, no sólo porque te lo digamos aquí, sino porque nadie te entendería... - txustaboy, Feb 4, 2015

Muchas gracias por enseñarme estas cosas, he tomado todos vuestros comentarios en consideración. - 00fa22c5, Feb 4, 2015

Answer 3

Sapphire, I admire your desire to read old texts and for this purpose it is clearly most useful to be aware of the future subjunctive.

But as for using it in spoken Spanish, I think it would be like going round speaking Shakespearean English on the streets.. Only the odd educated person would understand, and , if you're speaking Shakespeare's English with an added foreign accent, as most students would, the truth is that people would piss themselves laughing, or possibly just walk away from this madwoman. This is only my personal opinion, but I speak with some experience of being a foreigner in various places.

Example: I am glad, thou can'st speak no better English; for, if thou couldst, thou would'st find me.....

This is understandable, if we're expecting it, but, on the street or in a café I think people would look blank.

I actually don't have an accent in my pronunciation of Spanish, because I also speak Polish natively, which has all the sounds that Spanish has (and even more). - 00fa22c5, Feb 4, 2015

I really don't think it's fair to compare using Shakespearean English (something I would never use, and is something never used at all today in any scenario) with using the fut. sub in Spanish, which is just one tense, - 00fa22c5, Feb 4, 2015

not a bunch of different words, different word order and grammatical constructions, and stuff like the T-V distinction, plural 2nd person, etc. But I woudn't use the fut. subjunctive in casual conversation; I understand that it would be strange. - 00fa22c5, Feb 4, 2015

Wikipedia says it's still used in certain dialects: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subjunctive_mood#Future_subjunctive - 00fa22c5, Feb 4, 2015

Ok, Sapphire. I admire your persistence. And how marvellous to speak without an accent, I'm afraid I have a Scandinavian accent in all languages I speak. - annierats, Feb 4, 2015

You do put up very interesting questions, Sapphire! - annierats, Feb 4, 2015

Thanks, I just really like Spanish so I want to learn as much as I can. Which languages do you speak? - 00fa22c5, Feb 4, 2015