Possessive Adjective vs. I.D Object Pronoun

Question

I want to translate below sentences in any imaginable situations:

1- (Ella) quiso/quería quemar su coche. :

possible translations:

She wanted to burn his car up.

or: She wanted to burn her(another one) car up.

or: She wanted to burn her own car up.

2- "(Ella) Quería quemarle el coche"

possible translations:

She wanted to burn his car up.

or: She wanted to burn her(another one) car up.

3- "(Ella) Quería quemarle el coche a él" "

possible translation:

She wanted to burn his car up.

4- "(Ella) Quería quemarle el coche a ella" "

possible translation:

She wanted to burn her(another one) car up.

Let me know your idea If my sentences or their translations are false.

Hi Arnoldsg. Please add your language details to your profile. You've been here for a while, right? Thanks amigo. - rac1, Nov 21, 2014

Hi ac1! What is the benifit of this work whereas nobody know my language? - arnoldsg72, Nov 21, 2014

Knowing your level in Spanish/English aids members when making corrections. If someone is a beginner, you would, of course, use a different approach than you would for someone that is advanced. - rac1, Nov 21, 2014

OK, I completed my profile. :) - arnoldsg72, Nov 21, 2014

Muchas gracias, amigo. :) - rac1, Nov 21, 2014

Answer 1

The lack of specific pronouns such as he, she, it or his, hers, its. makes Spanish more ambiguous. As your post points out su and sus are very vague.

This is difficult for me and I imagine for other English speakers as well.

Yes, I agree, but I'm slowly getting the hangof the les , le and se with the ' a Pepi' . The ' a whoever is crucial. - annierats, Nov 21, 2014

Yes les and le fall into the same vagueness bucket. Se is another matter entirely. One that I fear I will never fully grasp. - gringojrf, Nov 21, 2014

Answer 2

For me are OK but the Spanish sentences are "strange":

(Ella) Quería quemarle el coche a él

(Ella) Quería quemarle el coche a ella

I suppose that you add the final part of the sentences "a él" or "a ella" because you want to guide the English Translation (his/her) but in Spanish is common to omit this part except it is a Name:

(Ella) Quería quemarle el coche a él (Strange)

(Ella) Quería quemarle el coche a Paco (Common)

(Ella) Quería quemarle el coche (Common when the members of the conversation know who is the person who his/her car was burned)

EDIT: After some comments and doubts of the English speakers i will try to clarify it.

In theory, it is not incorrect to add "a él" or "a ella", right?. But probably you will never hear a native Spanish speaker add them when he/she is talking (in a similar context). Maybe for a English speaker is difficult to understand why is not necessary to specify the gender of the guy who her/his was robbed (in this case) but we know it "following" the conversation (**). Besides, if there are any doubt about the gender we always use male.

In English language, you are forced to specify the subject with a pronoum or a noum because the verb tells you nothing about the subject. In Spanish the verb tell you "who" is doing the action, and the subject is not required. When the subject does not appear in a sentence it is called "sujeto elíptico".

Each language has its special features and you only can get them with practice. When I speak in English it is difficult for me remember that I can´t say: I don´t give you nothing because in spanish you have to say No te di nada but after a lot mistakes I have learned it .

I don´t know if this both paragraphs have solved your doubts. If notask me again

I think you should include the 'a ...' part whenever it specifies or clarifies an otherwise uncertain object: f.e. if you just talked about 3 guys and a girl and you want to refer to her, it helps to add 'a ella', or to specify: a los empleados de Google. - Suzanne_Romijnders, Nov 21, 2014

But I think what I'd do in this case is say: el coche DE él/ella or el coche suyo, if it's made clear by the proceeding sentences whose it is. - Suzanne_Romijnders, Nov 21, 2014

Yes Suzy, I think de is better, even I used "de" - Joydeep_Singh, Nov 21, 2014

Suzy,txtaboy is a Spanish native.. Say no moe, darle gracias. Gracias, |Txta. - annierats, Nov 21, 2014

I want to add that I'm not "Cervantes" and other Spanish speaker could thing in a different way - txustaboy, Nov 21, 2014

Annie, I know that Tx is from Spain, sometimes there are many ways os saying the same\e thing ,,overhere both de and a work just fine,, I think Tx would agree with me - Joydeep_Singh, Nov 21, 2014

txustaboy's sentence was fantastic! : " I'm not Cervantes" :)) - arnoldsg72, Nov 21, 2014

Please comment on my comment to arnoldsg72"s last post. - Jubilado, Nov 21, 2014

Answer 3

@txustaboy

I used "A él" for determining gender of "le". So my question is how can I determine the gender of "le" in this sentence If i don't want to mention the name of car owner?

@ Joydeep_Singh

Are you sure that "se quiso quemar (or quiso quemarse) el coche" means "she wanted to burn her own car" ??? I guess "quemarse"means " to get burned" not "burn something".

Instead of "sexuality" use the word "gender" in your sentence above. - Jubilado, Nov 21, 2014

Haha, "sexuality" aint the right word here I think, Sir Jubilado is correct .. gender it should be :) - Joydeep_Singh, Nov 21, 2014

thanks Jubilado, for helping to improve both languages - arnoldsg72, Nov 21, 2014

Yes you are right but reflexives can be used in myriad ways depending on the context and the other words surrounding it (the verb).. for example .. quiso quemarse (she wanted to get burned.) ... quiso quemarse el coche (the car wanted to get burned/burn - Joydeep_Singh, Nov 21, 2014

itself// ella quiso quemarse el coche .. she wanted to burn her own car ) ... but you may also check it with Txustaboy as he is a native from spain so he can tell better, I am a non native and can go wrong ,,haha - Joydeep_Singh, Nov 21, 2014

Dear txustaboy! we need your help! :) - arnoldsg72, Nov 21, 2014

Ok I will answer in my post :) - txustaboy, Nov 21, 2014

Joydeep is right here .) - txustaboy, Nov 21, 2014

Thanks Tx :) - Joydeep_Singh, Nov 21, 2014

Answer 4

Dear txustaboy,

After reading another topic i reached to a paradox!

You confirmed that the sentence number 4 is true: "she wanted to burn her own car = (Ella) Quería quemarse el coche"

Therefore this sentence should be true too: "(Ella) se quemó el coche = She burned her own car"

And If above sentence is true so this one is true too: " Me quemé el coche = I burned my own car"

So the general rule is: "reflexive pronoun + verb + article + possession"

If this rule is true how do you explain your comment in my past topic:

http://www.spanishdict.com/answers/268569/possessive-adjective-for-parts-of-body/oldest#a830571

your comment: "Me lavo la ventana de la casa. It is not correct for me, "Me" it is not necessary in this sentence."

Why is "Me lavo la ventana de la casa." incorrect whereas it is according to the rule of this topic? Is this a paradox or I have a mistake?

Answer 5

I want to reach to a conclusion. I review some subjects that maybe have ambiguities somewhat in this topic:

1- "a + the name" can be used for clarifying both subjective pronoun and I.D.O pronoun like txustaboy's sentence (that "A Poco" was for clarify "le").

2- "a + the subjective pronoun" is not common for clarifying I.D.O pronoun like sentence number 3 & 4.

3- (Ella) Quería quemarle el coche a Paco = (Ella) Quería quemar el coche de Paco

4- she wanted to burn her own car = (Ella) Quería quemarse el coche

(I think such a construction can be conflict with reflexive or pronominal verb!)

txustaboy will say the last word . If any of my points are false, please help.

I wondered why txustaboy didn't mention the phrase "su propio coche" as being "her own car" and I still only see "she wanted to burn up the car (not necessarily hers)" in #4. - Jubilado, Nov 21, 2014

All the sentences are correct for me (The third one is a great example of when tu add "le" to the verb + "a"or when use "de". - txustaboy, Nov 22, 2014

Jubilado: You are right too. Besides in this case I¡´d probably add "su propio coche", because it is so strange that somebody burns her/his own car. So I´d say "Ella quemó su propio coche" making emphasis - txustaboy, Nov 22, 2014

Thanks txustaboy & Jubilado! - arnoldsg72, Nov 22, 2014

Answer 6

As I explained in your other post, the use of indirect object pronoun is much more extensive in Spanish (than in english,, and the use of the possesive adjectives is far less than english..

So ... le quiso quemar el coche ( de el/ella/ud./uds. etc,)..

If she wanted to burn her own car then you could say..

se quiso quemar (or quiso quemarse) el coche ..

No, see txtaboy, a Paco, a él.. - annierats, Nov 21, 2014

In the first one, depending of the case, we say "le quiso quemar el coche" or "Le quiso quemar su coche" or "Te quiso quemar el coche" ot "Te quiso quemar tu coche" (this one is a little less common) - txustaboy, Nov 21, 2014